Wonder Elimination Thread

Duke Maynard said:

Are we allowed to post again? How much are we allowed to post?
Because we're going to run out of forum goers long before we start running short on wonders.

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MooFreaky said:

Leaning Tower of Pisa... I don't care how good this wonder may be in game, I just don't like this building being considered a wonder. I have been there, I have followed the history of how and why is happened and frankly it simply doesn't belong. The others are (generally) marvels of engineering, art and/or culture (often all of the above). Pisa is simply a tower that had poor foundation work. Putting a poorly designed and constructed building alongside something like the Pyramids is just so grr!! I refuse to ever build this atrocity.

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MooFreaky said:

Leaning Tower of Pisa... I don't care how good this wonder may be in game, I just don't like this building being considered a wonder. I have been there, I have followed the history of how and why is happened and frankly it simply doesn't belong. The others are (generally) marvels of engineering, art and/or culture (often all of the above). Pisa is simply a tower that had poor foundation work. Putting a poorly designed and constructed building alongside something like the Pyramids is just so grr!!
I refuse to ever build this atrocity.

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MooFreaky said:

Leaning Tower of Pisa... I don't care how good this wonder may be in game, I just don't like this building being considered a wonder. I have been there, I have followed the history of how and why is happened and frankly it simply doesn't belong. The others are (generally) marvels of engineering, art and/or culture (often all of the above). Pisa is simply a tower that had poor foundation work. Putting a poorly designed and constructed building alongside something like the Pyramids is just so grr!!
I refuse to ever build this atrocity.

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I feel the same about Cristo Redentor, which is why that will get one of my negative votes, probably tomorrow. But then this is, I fully admit, arbitrary based largely on the fact that the statue is (a) extraordinarily ugly, and (b) notable more for its scenic location than for any of the above assets. Lots of Wonders are in that shouldn't be, but make it due to being cultural icons - Big Ben, really? And I say that as a Brit. Although is that any worse than Isaac Newton's College from earlier games? The Eiffel Tower is just an oversized telegraph pylon, something designed specifically to win a competition. But these things are certainly iconic, and so is the Leaning Tower of Pisa (and unlike, say, Cristo Redentor or the Statue of Liberty, it was actually built by the culture it's associated with).

So, I feel there are worse offenders out there than Pisa - the CN Tower is just another competition-winning "tallest building"; it would make much more sense to have used the more iconic (and pioneering) Empire State Building, or the more architecturally innovative Petronas Towers, for a "tallest building" Wonder. Although they couldn't really be used as broadcast towers. I've visited Big Ben, the Forbidden Palace, the Louvre and the Eiffel Tower, and I live close to the Pentagon. I wouldn't consider any of those worthy for consideration as Wonders to compare with Petra, Angkor, the Pyramids, Stonehenge or even Chichen Itza. Among "Wonders that shouldn't be", Pisa is at least somewhat unique.

Hanging Gardens are great. I love it in a Traditional policy using Capital that later uses Freedom to mass Specialists. Food is power early game and nothing does it quite like the Hanging Gardens. The free Garden is often overlooked, but just has so much synergy with the wonder as it encourages use of specialists.

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And to think of it another way, a free Garden is a National Epic by another name.

But we aren't voting simply based on our feelings to the wonders in reality, but to their effects in the game. Your approach is flawed because we cant adapt it to wonders that don't exist anymore (i.e., I don't like the Colossus because it's just some big guy). Just vote based on in-game stats.

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We aren't voting simply based on our feelings on the real-world Wonders, but by the same token why should we be voting simply based on their effects in the game? The choice of Wonders in a Civ game is important for flavour. Petra is my favourite partly because the site is one of the best I"ve ever visited (and frankly, while the Pyramids are an amazing architectural feat, you really need to be close enough to see the bricks, and have an appreciation of their age, to understand that. They don't overawe to look at them in reality the way Petra or Angkor do). On the same grounds I'd never vote against Angkor Wat; however bad its game effects, it unquestionably deserves to be a Wonder.

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But we aren't voting simply based on our feelings to the wonders in reality, but to their effects in the game. Your approach is flawed because we cant adapt it to wonders that don't exist anymore (i.e., I don't like the Colossus because it's just some big guy). Just vote based on in-game stats.

And please don't clap... it's a very old building.

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salty mud said:

Alhambra 22
Big Ben 23
Brandenburg Gate 20
Chichen Itza 23
CN Tower 10
Colossus 19
Cristo Redentor 21
Eiffel Tower 24
Forbidden Palace 20
Great Library 23
Great Lighthouse 20
Great Mosque of Djenne 18
Great Wall 9
Hagia Sophia 20
Himeji Castle 20
Hanging Gardens 23
Hubble 25
Kremlin 15
Leaning Tower of Pisa 20
Louvre 21
Machu Picchu 20
Neuschwanstein Castle 22
Notre Dame 22
Oracle 25
Pentagon 8
Petra 24
Porcelain Tower 21
Pyramids 22
Sistine Chapel 20
Statue of Liberty 21
Stonehenge 22
Sydney Opera House 18
Taj Mahal 22

Great Library due to the good science boost it gives (and science slots also?) Very important to tech ahead in the early game.

Stonehenge because I can usually get a pantheon or religion without the need for its faith from shrines, CSs or ruins.

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hobbsyoyo said:

PhilBowles,

Is there any logic to the graphical representation of the Great Wall?

It never seems to come close to wrapping around my contiguous borders (and I'm not even counting borders that expanded during construction or after it was built). It only seems to wrap around 2, maybe 3 or 4 cities at most.

Also, when you lose a city or territory, the wall will shrink to fit the new borders. I don't get how/why it will do that but not expand with the borders.

And does it only have affect in the tiles it actually wraps around or does it still work in all of your tiles?

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Dogmouth said:

The graphic has nothing to do with the effect. It still works on cities where the graphic is absent. But yes, the graphic is infuriating.

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