Unique Units elimination thread

Hehe, sorry bout that Monthar we posted at nearly the same time! Just had to double check if anyone posted inbetween my write-up and the previous post.
I was doing the same thing by hitting the preview post button, so you must have hit the submit button right after I hit preview.
 
African Forest Elephant 21
Atlatist 21
B17 17 (-2)
Ballista 20
Battering Ram 17
Berserker 21 (+1)
Bowmen 20
Camel Archer 22
Carolean 23
Cataphract 17
Chu-Ko-Nu 26
Companion Cavalry 20
Conquistador 22
Cossack 18
Dromon 19
Foreign Legion 21
Hakkapeliitta 16
Hoplite 16
Horse Archer 23
Hussar 18
Hwach'a 19
Immortal 20
Jaguar 20
Janissary 23 (+1)
Keshik 26
Landsknecht 19
Legion 23
Longbowman 28
Mandekalu Cavalry 16
Mehal Sefari 16
Minutemen 21
Mohawk Warrior 23
Musketeer 20
Naresuan's Elephant 21
Norwegian Ski Infantry 14 (-2)
Panzer 16
Pictish Warrior 21
Quinquereme 18
Samurai 18
Sea Beggar 24
Sipahi 20
Ship of the Line 20
Slinger 9
Tercio 21
Turtle Ship 13
War Elephant 21

Berserker: A melee unit that is fast on land or attacking from water. Does not suffer penalties over rivers or against anti-mounted units. Wow.

Norwegian Ski Infantry: More expensive than a plain Rifleman, combat almost never takes place on snow/tundra, and its ability only works on bare hills. Plus, berserkers lose their movement when upgraded to them. :(
 
ican Forest Elephant 21
Atlatist 21
B17 17
Ballista 20
Battering Ram 17
Berserker 21
Bowmen 20
Camel Archer 22
Carolean 23
Cataphract 17
Chu-Ko-Nu 26
Companion Cavalry 20
Conquistador 22
Cossack 18
Dromon 20
Foreign Legion 21
Hakkapeliitta 16
Hoplite 16
Horse Archer 23
Hussar 18
Hwach'a 19
Immortal 20
Jaguar 20
Janissary 21
Keshik 26
Landsknecht 19
Legion 23
Longbowman 28
Mandekalu Cavalry 16
Mehal Sefari 16
Minutemen 21
Mohawk Warrior 23
Musketeer 20
Naresuan's Elephant 21
Norwegian Ski Infantry 14
Panzer 16
Pictish Warrior 21
Quinquereme 18
Samurai 18
Sea Beggar 24
Sipahi 20
Ship of the Line 20
Slinger 9
Tercio 21
Turtle Ship 13
War Elephant 21

Got to give a vote to the Dromons. In my G&K game, I played on small continents and it would've been difficult (and late) to get some siege units (lots of hills and forests) for my conquests. Dromons substituted very nicely and did really good damage to the coastal cities and units.

Never had any problems defeating Janissaries whenever I went up against the Ottomans, where with promoted Keshiks, Camels, Knights or plain Cavs.
 
African Forest Elephant 21
Atlatist 21
B17 17
Ballista 20
Battering Ram 17
Berserker 21
Bowmen 20
Camel Archer 22
Carolean 23
Cataphract 17
Chu-Ko-Nu 26
Companion Cavalry 20
Conquistador 22
Cossack 18
Dromon 20
Foreign Legion 21
Hakkapeliitta 16
Hoplite 14
Horse Archer 23
Hussar 18
Hwach'a 19
Immortal 20
Jaguar 20
Janissary 21
Keshik 26
Landsknecht 19
Legion 23
Longbowman 28
Mandekalu Cavalry 16
Mehal Sefari 16
Minutemen 21
Mohawk Warrior 23
Musketeer 20
Naresuan's Elephant 21
Norwegian Ski Infantry 14
Panzer 16
Pictish Warrior 21
Quinquereme 18
Samurai 18
Sea Beggar 24
Sipahi 20
Ship of the Line 21
Slinger 9
Tercio 21
Turtle Ship 13
War Elephant 21

Points to Ship of the Line for the same reasons before....its a beast.

Took points from Hopolite this time. I am not a fan of uniques with just additional combat strength.
 
African Forest Elephant 21
Atlatist 21
B17 17
Ballista 20
Battering Ram 17
Berserker 21
Bowmen 20
Camel Archer 22
Carolean 23
Cataphract 17
Chu-Ko-Nu 26
Companion Cavalry 20
Conquistador 22
Cossack 18
Dromon 20
Foreign Legion 21
Hakkapeliitta 16
Hoplite 14
Horse Archer 23
Hussar 18
Hwach'a 19
Immortal 20
Jaguar 20
Janissary 21
Keshik 26
Landsknecht 19
Legion 23
Longbowman 28
Mandekalu Cavalry 16
Mehal Sefari 16
Minutemen 21
Mohawk Warrior 24
Musketeer 20
Naresuan's Elephant 21
Norwegian Ski Infantry 12
Panzer 16
Pictish Warrior 21
Quinquereme 18
Samurai 18
Sea Beggar 24
Sipahi 20
Ship of the Line 21
Slinger 9
Tercio 21
Turtle Ship 13
War Elephant 21

Mohawks rock! Has anyone, anywhere, ever justified building ski infantry?
 
African Forest Elephant 21
Atlatist 21
B17 17
Ballista 20
Battering Ram 17
Berserker 19
Bowmen 20
Camel Archer 22
Carolean 23
Cataphract 17
Chu-Ko-Nu 26
Companion Cavalry 20
Conquistador 22
Cossack 18
Dromon 20
Foreign Legion 21
Hakkapeliitta 16
Hoplite 14
Horse Archer 23
Hussar 18
Hwach'a 19
Immortal 20
Jaguar 20
Janissary 21
Keshik 26
Landsknecht 19
Legion 23
Longbowman 28
Mandekalu Cavalry 16
Mehal Sefari 16
Minutemen 21
Mohawk Warrior 24
Musketeer 20
Naresuan's Elephant 21
Norwegian Ski Infantry 12
Panzer 16
Pictish Warrior 21
Quinquereme 18
Samurai 18
Sea Beggar 24
Sipahi 20
Ship of the Line 21
Slinger 9
Tercio 21
Turtle Ship 13
War Elephant 21

Fix'd
 
It doesn't matter if you're playing MP or SP, land or naval, if you're using only melee units, or only ranged units, you have a lot more problems that dealing with an enemy keeping their naval units out of reach of your Turtle Ships.

No, it's not "always better to attack with frigates". Frigates can't capture enemy ships like the privateer can. Frigate's can't capture the city like Turtle ships and Privateers can. Actually it's always better to use the correct unit for the job.

You made some good points Monthar but they aren't enough to convince me.

The biggest advantage of Frigates is they can be accessible right when Navigation is researched thanks to the upgrading path. I don't repeat enough in all my posts about warfare how much speed is so important in these kind of games.

I do build privateers and other units to ''mix up'' the whole thing(a good warmonger will prepare the right combination of units to make maximum damage in the shortest time possible) but most importantly is you don't want to lose units before they gain more.

Turtle ships will only serve if i really need to defend against a horde of privateers/frigates but again it will be for mp only(you know like me that the IA is too dumb to make a well coordonated attack) and at deity it's still useless because you can reach Navigation before any AIs anyway.

I will spend my stock of iron for frigates before starting privateers. I'm not talking about 2-3 ships, i'm talking about carpet of ships where the defender is so stumped that he just can't do anything about it.

I played 3 naval games so far and they were a walk in the park for all of them.

1-find iron
2-settle them
3-build trireme/compass ship(dont remember the name)
4-upgrade
5-build privateers when all iron is used

Strongest and fastest way to win naval games into ren. era. Privateers will be engulfed by all these frigates attacking from nowhere :goodjob:

Edit : War Chariot is dead(updated the OP)
 
African Forest Elephant 21
Atlatist 21
B17 17
Ballista 20
Battering Ram 17
Berserker 21
Bowmen 20
Camel Archer 22
Carolean 23
Cataphract 17
Chu-Ko-Nu 26
Companion Cavalry 20
Conquistador 22
Cossack 18
Dromon 20
Foreign Legion 21
Hakkapeliitta 16
Hoplite 14
Horse Archer 23
Hussar 18
Hwach'a 19
Immortal 20
Jaguar 20
Janissary 21
Keshik 26
Landsknecht 19
Legion 23
Longbowman 28
Mandekalu Cavalry 16
Mehal Sefari 16
Minutemen 21
Mohawk Warrior 24
Musketeer 20
Naresuan's Elephant 21
Norwegian Ski Infantry 12
Panzer 16
Pictish Warrior 21
Quinquereme 18
Samurai 18
Sea Beggar 24
Sipahi 20
Ship of the Line 21
Slinger 9
Tercio 21
Turtle Ship 13
War Elephant 21

Mohawks rock! Has anyone, anywhere, ever justified building ski infantry?

Denmark, because Riflemen are necessary and Danes can't build any other kind?

I will spend my stock of iron for frigates before starting privateers. I'm not talking about 2-3 ships, i'm talking about carpet of ships where the defender is so stumped that he just can't do anything about it.

For which you need:

1. Navigation rather than Astronomy. Fine if you're on a naval beeline. Not obviously ideal if you're aiming for a science victory path (as a certain science civ might), or indeed if there isn't a lot of water on your map - such a pangea with Turtleable coastal areas, or a couple of large continents.

2. Extensive production to do with a carpet of frigates what you can with a couple of Turtles. To get these in a realistic time frame while both Turtles and Frigates are still relevant, this will generally mean playing wide and so having a lot of production slots, unless you have a vast stock of cash and/or an exceptional coastal production city. Received wisdom, whether advisable or not, is that Korea benefits from playing tall to some degree - and it is also not going to want to overinvest in military units at the expense of specialist buildings that it could be researching/building at the same time.

3. Iron. This can be a trivial consideration, but it's still more restrictive than no requirement for iron and not quite as reliable as a result. And it does require, as you point out, actively selling iron - a resource that mostly turns up in bad terrain that you might not want to settle just for iron, given the limited usefulness of this resource generally.
 
African Forest Elephant 21
Atlatist 21
B17 17
Ballista 20
Battering Ram 17
Berserker 19
Bowmen 20
Camel Archer 22
Carolean 23
Cataphract 17
Chu-Ko-Nu 26
Companion Cavalry 20
Conquistador 22
Cossack 18
Dromon 20
Foreign Legion 21
Hakkapeliitta 14 (-2)
Hoplite 14
Horse Archer 23
Hussar 18
Hwach'a 19
Immortal 20
Jaguar 20
Janissary 22 (+1)
Keshik 26
Landsknecht 19
Legion 23
Longbowman 28
Mandekalu Cavalry 16
Mehal Sefari 16
Minutemen 21
Mohawk Warrior 24
Musketeer 20
Naresuan's Elephant 21
Norwegian Ski Infantry 12
Panzer 16
Pictish Warrior 21
Quinquereme 18
Samurai 18
Sea Beggar 24
Sipahi 20
Ship of the Line 21
Slinger 9
Tercio 21
Turtle Ship 13
War Elephant 21

Janissaries are one of a kind units. If you have a tech lead, your opponents should say their prayers. Not only do they get a great bonus on attacks, but also a heal on kill. If you are fighting inferior units, then you can easily mash through armies, finishing them off, ready to mash another.

On the other hand, there is the hakkapelliita. Lancers aren't great units in the first place, and now they get a bigger GG bonus, and they allow him to ride a horse? What if I don't have one?
 
African Forest Elephant 21
Atlatist 21
B17 17
Ballista 20
Battering Ram 17
Berserker 19
Bowmen 20
Camel Archer 22
Carolean 23
Cataphract 17
Chu-Ko-Nu 26
Companion Cavalry 20
Conquistador 22
Cossack 18
Dromon 20
Foreign Legion 21
Hakkapeliitta 14
Hoplite 14
Horse Archer 23
Hussar 18
Hwach'a 19
Immortal 20
Jaguar 20
Janissary 22 (+1)
Keshik 26
Landsknecht 19
Legion 23
Longbowman 28
Mandekalu Cavalry 16
Mehal Sefari 14 (-2) - One of the more meh GK units. While the bonus is nice Rifles and their chain are no longer as useful now. The defense is nice to slow things down but for max use you have to have a limited play style. Its better than the Samurai I think - just felt like voting this down this time
Minutemen 21
Mohawk Warrior 24
Musketeer 20
Naresuan's Elephant 21
Norwegian Ski Infantry 12
Panzer 16
Pictish Warrior 21
Quinquereme 18
Samurai 18
Sea Beggar 24
Sipahi 20
Ship of the Line 21
Slinger 9
Tercio 21
Turtle Ship 14 I was too late to save the War Chariot - but seriously in Gods and Kings this thing is the unsung OP ship. People are raving about the sea beggar (and for good reason) but having Turtleships out earlier, cheapish to build, and so powerful for its era that anything can be wiped out. In multiplayer where level field is more equal - turtle ships just annihilate - and a few hwachas wipe out armies/cities (but bug will be fixed on hwacha soon hopefully)
War Elephant 21
 
For ultra defense set-up the Turtle ship can ve valuable but that's all. His biggest advantage contain his biggest problem. You absolutely need to play defensive with them unless you have easy access to another capital from shore which is even more painful to travel.

While you defend, other players begind to expand by force with frigates and privateers. Oceans are like a big great plain map without rivers and mountains...lot of combinations with 4-5 moves units(can be more if England, GLH, policy).
 
African Forest Elephant 21
Atlatist 21
B17 15 (-2)
Ballista 20
Battering Ram 17
Berserker 19
Bowmen 20
Camel Archer 22
Carolean 23
Cataphract 17
Chu-Ko-Nu 26
Companion Cavalry 20
Conquistador 22
Cossack 18
Dromon 20
Foreign Legion 21
Hakkapeliitta 14
Hoplite 14
Horse Archer 24 (+1)
Hussar 18
Hwach'a 19
Immortal 20
Jaguar 20
Janissary 22
Keshik 26
Landsknecht 19
Legion 23
Longbowman 28
Mandekalu Cavalry 16
Mehal Sefari 14
Minutemen 21
Mohawk Warrior 24
Musketeer 20
Naresuan's Elephant 21
Norwegian Ski Infantry 12
Panzer 16
Pictish Warrior 21
Quinquereme 18
Samurai 18
Sea Beggar 24
Sipahi 20
Ship of the Line 21
Slinger 9
Tercio 21
Turtle Ship 14

B17 - bombers are OP anyway
HA - same as previously: logistic, swarm, sting, fly away
 
African Forest Elephant 21
Atlatist 21
B17 15
Ballista 20
Battering Ram 17
Berserker 19
Bowmen 20
Camel Archer 22
Carolean 23
Cataphract 17
Chu-Ko-Nu 26
Companion Cavalry 20
Conquistador 22
Cossack 18
Dromon 20
Foreign Legion 21
Hakkapeliitta 14
Hoplite 14
Horse Archer 24
Hussar 18
Hwach'a 19
Immortal 20
Jaguar 20
Janissary 22
Keshik 26
Landsknecht 19
Legion 23
Longbowman 28 (+1)
Mandekalu Cavalry 16
Mehal Sefari 14
Minutemen 21
Mohawk Warrior 24
Musketeer 20
Naresuan's Elephant 21
Norwegian Ski Infantry 12
Panzer 16
Pictish Warrior 21
Quinquereme 18
Samurai 18
Sea Beggar 24
Sipahi 20
Ship of the Line 21
Slinger 7 (-2)
Tercio 21
Turtle Ship 14

I still consider the medieval artillery (Longbows) favourites in this competition, and the Slinger is probably the weakest remaining UU. :)
 
African Forest Elephant 21
Atlatist 21
B17 15
Ballista 20
Battering Ram 17
Berserker 19
Bowmen 20
Camel Archer 22
Carolean 23
Cataphract 17
Chu-Ko-Nu 26
Companion Cavalry 20
Conquistador 22
Cossack 18
Dromon 18
Foreign Legion 21
Hakkapeliitta 14
Hoplite 14
Horse Archer 24
Hussar 18
Hwach'a 19
Immortal 20
Jaguar 20
Janissary 22
Keshik 26
Landsknecht 19
Legion 23
Longbowman 28 (+1)
Mandekalu Cavalry 16
Mehal Sefari 14
Minutemen 21
Mohawk Warrior 24
Musketeer 20
Naresuan's Elephant 21
Norwegian Ski Infantry 12
Panzer 16
Pictish Warrior 21
Quinquereme 18
Samurai 18
Sea Beggar 24
Sipahi 20
Ship of the Line 21
Slinger 7 (-2)
Tercio 21
Turtle Ship 15

Downvote fro Dromon for being too little too soon. I'm not ready for naval warfare when its in its heyday.

Up vote for the turtle ship as I often find myself ready for naval battle prior to Frigates/Beggars, but not finding the Caravel to have the oomph. Hard to argue with numbers like those...
 
African Forest Elephant 21
Atlatist 21
B17 15
Ballista 20
Battering Ram 17
Berserker 19
Bowmen 20
Camel Archer 22
Carolean 24 (+1)
Cataphract 17
Chu-Ko-Nu 26
Companion Cavalry 20
Conquistador 22
Cossack 18
Dromon 18
Foreign Legion 21
Hakkapeliitta 14
Hoplite 14
Horse Archer 24
Hussar 18
Hwach'a 19
Immortal 20
Jaguar 20
Janissary 22
Keshik 26
Landsknecht 19
Legion 21 (-2)
Longbowman 28
Mandekalu Cavalry 16
Mehal Sefari 14
Minutemen 21
Mohawk Warrior 24
Musketeer 20
Naresuan's Elephant 21
Norwegian Ski Infantry 12
Panzer 16
Pictish Warrior 21
Quinquereme 18
Samurai 18
Sea Beggar 24
Sipahi 20
Ship of the Line 21
Slinger 7
Tercio 21
Turtle Ship 15

Carolean: great replacement for riflemen, enough said

Leigon: I remeber the days when these were great, but since G&k they are no longer as useful
 
African Forest Elephant 21
Atlatist 21
B17 15
Ballista 20
Battering Ram 17
Berserker 19
Bowmen 20
Camel Archer 22
Carolean 24
Cataphract 17
Chu-Ko-Nu 26
Companion Cavalry 20
Conquistador 22
Cossack 18
Dromon 18
Foreign Legion 21
Hakkapeliitta 14
Hoplite 14
Horse Archer 24
Hussar 18
Hwach'a 19
Immortal 20
Jaguar 20
Janissary 22
Keshik 26
Landsknecht 19
Legion 21
Longbowman 28
Mandekalu Cavalry 16
Mehal Sefari 14
Minutemen 22 (+1)
Mohawk Warrior 24
Musketeer 20
Naresuan's Elephant 21
Norwegian Ski Infantry 12
Panzer 16
Pictish Warrior 21
Quinquereme 18
Samurai 18
Sea Beggar 24
Sipahi 20
Ship of the Line 21
Slinger 7
Tercio 21
Turtle Ship 13 (-2)

Minutemen has the ability to ignore terrain (and river crossing) penalties like a scout. This is great, especially as they upgrade to Riflemen -> Infantry -> Mechanized Infantry. Seriously, Mechanized Infantry that ignore terrain penalties and attack multiple times each turn are unstoppable!

The Turtle Ship is not a good UU. The whole point of Astronomy is that you can now explore the new world. Taking away the ability to traverse the oceans is a penalty, not a benefit. I understand that they are stronger and a few people like to use them to wage early naval wars. I don't find this to be a compelling reason to want to build them. At this point in the game, there are other things which I am concentrating on (like getting Observatories up) and Navigation isn't far away to provide the Privateers and Frigates which will dominate the seas for the Renaissance Era.
 
African Forest Elephant 21
Atlatist 21
B17 15
Ballista 20
Battering Ram 17
Berserker 19
Bowmen 20
Camel Archer 22
Carolean 24
Cataphract 17
Chu-Ko-Nu 26
Companion Cavalry 20
Conquistador 22
Cossack 18
Dromon 16 (-2)
Foreign Legion 21
Hakkapeliitta 14
Hoplite 14
Horse Archer 24
Hussar 18
Hwach'a 19
Immortal 20
Jaguar 20
Janissary 22
Keshik 27 (+1)
Landsknecht 19
Legion 21
Longbowman 28
Mandekalu Cavalry 16
Mehal Sefari 14
Minutemen 22
Mohawk Warrior 24
Musketeer 20
Naresuan's Elephant 21
Norwegian Ski Infantry 12
Panzer 16
Pictish Warrior 21
Quinquereme 18
Samurai 18
Sea Beggar 24
Sipahi 20
Ship of the Line 21
Slinger 7
Tercio 21
Turtle Ship 13

The Keshik allows whole armies to use hit-and-run tactics. It is also first really upgraded when landships arrive allowing for a very long time of usage. The ability to move, shoot and retreat is borderline OP.

The Dromon has some usage in the beginning allowing barbs to be easier handled, but since the AI is fairly slow to start building ships, the benefits of having a strong naval attack are fairly small.
 
African Forest Elephant 21
Atlatist 21
B17 15
Ballista 20
Battering Ram 17
Berserker 19
Bowmen 20
Camel Archer 22
Carolean 24
Cataphract 17
Chu-Ko-Nu 26
Companion Cavalry 20
Conquistador 22
Cossack 19 (+1)
Dromon 16
Foreign Legion 21
Hakkapeliitta 14
Hoplite 12 (-2)
Horse Archer 24
Hussar 18
Hwach'a 19
Immortal 20
Jaguar 20
Janissary 22
Keshik 27
Landsknecht 19
Legion 21
Longbowman 28
Mandekalu Cavalry 16
Mehal Sefari 14
Minutemen 22
Mohawk Warrior 24
Musketeer 20
Naresuan's Elephant 21
Norwegian Ski Infantry 12
Panzer 16
Pictish Warrior 21
Quinquereme 18
Samurai 18
Sea Beggar 24
Sipahi 20
Ship of the Line 21
Slinger 7
Tercio 21
Turtle Ship 13

Hoplite: given the progress tree, anything based on spearmen or lancers should go.
Cossack: very good to mop up pesky and wounded AI units still standing between you and your next target city.:D
 
For ultra defense set-up the Turtle ship can ve valuable but that's all. His biggest advantage contain his biggest problem. You absolutely need to play defensive with them unless you have easy access to another capital from shore which is even more painful to travel.

Why painful? It's no slower than a Trireme, the normal early-game exploration unit, and I have very rarely encountered maps with major landmasses unconnected by a coast. By the time you get Turtles, you should have pretty fully explored at least the closest coastal areas, and so many civs have coastal start biases - and others that don't will settle coastally anyway, either capitals or other civs, that it's a fairly rare map where you don't have shore access to someone you can hit.
 
African Forest Elephant 21
Atlatist 21
B17 15
Ballista 20
Battering Ram 15
Berserker 19
Bowmen 20
Camel Archer 22
Carolean 25
Cataphract 17
Chu-Ko-Nu 26
Companion Cavalry 20
Conquistador 22
Cossack 19
Dromon 16
Foreign Legion 21
Hakkapeliitta 14
Hoplite 12
Horse Archer 24
Hussar 18
Hwach'a 19
Immortal 20
Jaguar 20
Janissary 22
Keshik 27
Landsknecht 19
Legion 21
Longbowman 28
Mandekalu Cavalry 16
Mehal Sefari 14
Minutemen 22
Mohawk Warrior 24
Musketeer 20
Naresuan's Elephant 21
Norwegian Ski Infantry 12
Panzer 16
Pictish Warrior 21
Quinquereme 18
Samurai 18
Sea Beggar 24
Sipahi 20
Ship of the Line 21
Slinger 7
Tercio 21
Turtle Ship 13

Carolean: Third upgrade and you will have melee units w march AND city attack bonus. Kill 'em all and let god sort 'em out.

Battering ram. Well, meh.

Seriously think this should be divided between eras though. Units are so time specific that it is hard to compare them over time.
 
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