Overall Civ Elimination Thread

Dutch- 16 One of the most useless UUs paired with one of the worst UAs. Polders don't save them here.

I agree that the Dutch UA is pretty awful now that you need a DoF to trade lump sums of gold, but how is the Sea Beggar a useless UU? Yes, it's only really strong on maps with a lot of coastal cities (which doesn't necessarily exclude Pangaeas), but it comes with Coastal Raider I and II AND Supply, and with just a Barracks and an Armory it'll start off with Logisitics as well. So that's a two-attack-per-turn-+99%-strength-against-cities-ship that can heal outside of your territory. There are far, far worse UUs than the Sea Beggar (cough Slinger cough).
 
Arabia- 24
Assyria- 13
Austria- 20
Aztec- 15
Babylon- 21
Byzantium- 1
Carthage- 17
Celts- 16
China- 23
Dutch- 17 The sea beggar is an outstanding UU starting with supply and like cpm said can start with logistics. BNW made them even more so with the trade system. Send 3 or 4 to blockade a city and pillage trade routes and the logistics promotion will make it so you can steal any ships that try to break the blockade, even SotLs. The supply promotion means they can stay there as long as the war lasts too. Polders are possibly the best UI in the game, only drawback is they're kind of limited on where you can place them. The UA could use some work but that's about it.
Egypt - 5 Kind of a nice UA on lower difficulties but not all that great the higher you go. The UU is nothing special. I think their best attribute is the Burial tomb which is great for going wide on piety starts but early wide is kind of weak anymore. Better off going wide a little later if that's your plan.
England- 20
Ethiopia- 22
Germany- 24
Greece- 17
Huns- 17
Inca- 23
Indonesia- 20
Iroquois- 3
Japan- 17
Korea- 20
Maya- 22
Mongols- 20
Morocco- 15
Ottoman- 17
Persia- 21
Poland- 24
Polynesia-12
Portugal- 18
Rome- 21
Shoshone- 22
Siam- 22
Songhai- 15
Spain- 19
Sweden- 24
Zulu- 22
 
Arabia- 24
Assyria- 13-3=10
Austria- 20
Aztec- 15
Babylon- 21
Byzantium- 1
Carthage- 17
Celts- 16
China- 23
Dutch- 17
Egypt - 5
England- 20
Ethiopia- 22
Germany- 24
Greece- 17
Huns- 17
Inca- 23
Indonesia- 20
Iroquois- 3
Japan- 17
Korea- 20+1=21
Maya- 22
Mongols- 20
Morocco- 15
Ottoman- 17
Persia- 21
Poland- 24
Polynesia-12
Portugal- 18
Rome- 21
Shoshone- 22
Siam- 22
Songhai- 15
Spain- 19
Sweden- 24
Zulu- 22

Assyria just doesn't work for me. The UU is great, but comes at a time where war/conquering still isn't optimal. The library replacement is meh, and the UA is okay. While it's great (especially on higher difficulties), you really have to be careful going after an advanced AI. Their units could totally outclass yours, rendering your UA useless

Korea, on the other hand, is set up to be a scientific turtle very well. You'll obviously be building science buildings, so there's a no brainer tech boost. Getting the Guilds early will give you science and a lot of GWAMs to keep up on tourism. The UUs are great for defense. If you have a costal capital, a few turtle ships will make it VERY difficult to take. The hwatcha is great for killing units the AI may try to send in. It's just an overall great civ.

The only reason the Zulu didn't get my vote was because science is king, and Korea does that VERY well.
 
Arabia- 24
Assyria- 10
Austria- 20
Aztec- 15
Babylon- 21
Byzantium- 1
Carthage- 17
Celts- 16
China- 23
Dutch- 17
Egypt - 5
England- 20
Ethiopia- 22
Germany- 24
Greece- 17
Huns- 17
Inca- 23-3= 20
Indonesia- 20
Iroquois- 3
Japan- 17
Korea- 21
Maya- 22+1=23
Mongols- 20
Morocco- 15
Ottoman- 17
Persia- 21
Poland- 24
Polynesia-12
Portugal- 18
Rome- 21
Shoshone- 22
Siam- 22
Songhai- 15
Spain- 19
Sweden- 24
Zulu- 22

Maya because I like the long count.

Inca because I don't care for the UA.
 
Arabia- 24
Assyria- 10
Austria- 20
Aztec- 15
Babylon- 21
Byzantium- 1-3 = Eliminated
Carthage- 17
Celts- 16
China- 23
Dutch- 17
Egypt - 5
England- 20
Ethiopia- 22
Germany- 24
Greece- 17
Huns- 17
Inca- 20
Indonesia- 20
Iroquois- 3
Japan- 17
Korea- 21
Maya- 23+1=24
Mongols- 20
Morocco- 15
Ottoman- 17
Persia- 21
Poland- 24
Polynesia-12
Portugal- 18
Rome- 21
Shoshone- 22
Siam- 22
Songhai- 15
Spain- 19
Sweden- 24
Zulu- 22

Byzantium - UUs too early to be used effectively along with chance based UA leaves me unimpressed.

Maya - The Pyramid UB combined with the Long Count UA are just very strong combination
 
Arabia- 24
Assyria- 10
Austria- 20
Aztec- 15+1=16
Babylon- 21
Carthage- 17
Celts- 16
China- 23
Dutch- 17
Egypt - 5
England- 20
Ethiopia- 22
Germany- 24
Greece- 17
Huns- 17
Inca- 20
Indonesia- 20-3=17
Iroquois- 3
Japan- 17
Korea- 21
Maya- 24
Mongols- 20
Morocco- 15
Ottoman- 17
Persia- 21
Poland- 24
Polynesia-12
Portugal- 18
Rome- 21
Shoshone- 22
Siam- 22
Songhai- 15
Spain- 19
Sweden- 24
Zulu- 22

Indonesia: Situational UA, UU and UB have no synergy.

Aztecs: Versatile, culture genereating UA. Great building for growth.
 
Arabia- 24
Assyria- 10
Austria- 20
Aztec- 15+1=16
Babylon- 21
Carthage- 17
Celts- 16
China- 25- Very versatile civ.
Dutch- 17
Egypt - 5
England- 20
Ethiopia- 22
Germany- 24
Greece- 17
Huns- 14- I really don't like early Dom.
Inca- 20
Indonesia- 17
Iroquois- 3
Japan- 17
Korea- 21
Maya- 24
Mongols- 20
Morocco- 15
Ottoman- 17
Persia- 21
Poland- 24
Polynesia-12
Portugal- 18
Rome- 21
Shoshone- 22
Siam- 22
Songhai- 15
Spain- 19
Sweden- 24
Zulu- 22
 
Arabia- 25
Assyria- 10
Austria- 20
Aztec- 16
Babylon- 21
Carthage- 17
Celts- 16
China- 25
Dutch- 17
Egypt - 5
England- 20
Ethiopia- 22
Germany- 24
Greece- 17
Huns- 14
Inca- 20
Indonesia- 17
Iroquois- 3
Japan- 17
Korea- 21
Maya- 24
Mongols- 20
Morocco- 15
Ottoman- 17
Persia- 21
Poland- 24
Polynesia-12
Portugal- 18
Rome- 21
Shoshone- 22
Siam- 22
Songhai- 15
Spain- 19
Sweden- 21
Zulu- 22

Arabia's a very good overall package, easily a top tier civ.
Sweden's very lacking. Weak UA, weak UUs.
 
Arabia's a very good overall package, easily a top tier civ.
Sweden's very lacking. Weak UA, weak UUs.

While I agree with Arabia being a very solid Civ, saying Sweden has a Weak UA and weak UUs is a bit of a stretch. Sweden's UA not only allows you to generate GPs faster, but let's you give spare ones away for a chunk of influence. The Haka isn't too impressive, but a rifleman that starts with march is just awesome
 
Arabia- 25
Assyria- 10
Austria- 20
Aztec- 16
Babylon- 21
Carthage- 17
Celts- 16
China- 25
Dutch- 17
Egypt - 5
England- 20
Ethiopia- 22
Germany- 24
Greece- 17
Huns- 14
Inca- 21Like the Iroquois, situational. However, they're a good bit more flexible with it, and the UA is still a nice punch even without any hills.
Indonesia- 17
Iroquois- 0 I'll finish off the Iroquois. There UA is interesting, but can really limit flexibility city improvement/placement wise. And their UB buffs forest the wrong way IMHO - a granary-replacement giving extra food on forest files would be much more useful.
Japan- 17
Korea- 21
Maya- 24
Mongols- 20
Morocco- 15
Ottoman- 17
Persia- 21
Poland- 24
Polynesia-12
Portugal- 18
Rome- 21
Shoshone- 22
Siam- 22
Songhai- 15
Spain- 19
Sweden- 21
Zulu- 22
 
Arabia- 25
Assyria- 10
Austria- 20
Aztec- 17 Not sure why the Aztecs are getting hate this early. They aren't the strategically best civ, but man, they're really fun to play. The floating gardens make cities grow very fast, especially next to lakes. You get tons of early culture by killing barbs, and you get a unit that moves fast in forests and jungles to start with. These don't obsolete at iron working either, so you can produce many of them later and get the free upgrade.
Babylon- 21
Carthage- 17
Celts- 16
China- 25
Dutch- 17
Egypt - 5
England- 20
Ethiopia- 22
Germany- 24
Greece- 17
Huns- 14
Inca- 21
Indonesia- 17
Japan- 17
Korea- 21
Maya- 24
Mongols- 20
Morocco- 12 Don't feel like I have any incentive to play them. So I get a few culture and some more trade routes coming my way, but at the expense of the AI getting more cash early on as well. Kasbah's are decent, but not good enough to make too big of a difference. The Cavalry I haven't used, but don't look too great
Ottoman- 17
Persia- 21
Poland- 24
Polynesia-12
Portugal- 18
Rome- 21
Shoshone- 22
Siam- 22
Songhai- 15
Spain- 19
Sweden- 21
Zulu- 22
 
Arabia- 25
Assyria- 10
Austria- 20
Aztec- 17
Babylon- 21
Carthage- 17
Celts- 16
China- 25
Dutch- 17
Egypt - 5
England- 21 - I love the feeling of crushing enemy Civs with huge fleets of Ships of the Line.
Ethiopia- 22
Germany- 24
Greece- 14 - Hate this guy so hard. SO HARD.
Huns- 14
Inca- 21
Indonesia- 17
Japan- 17
Korea- 21
Maya- 24
Mongols- 20
Morocco- 12
Ottoman- 17
Persia- 21
Poland- 24
Polynesia-12
Portugal- 18
Rome- 21
Shoshone- 22
Siam- 22
Songhai- 15
Spain- 19
Sweden- 21
Zulu- 22
 
Eliminated
34 the Iroquois
35 Byzantium
36 Brazil
37 America
38 Russia
39 Venice
40 India
41 France
42 Denmark

Byzantium is the first G&K civ to be eliminated, 5 of the eliminated civs are from vanilla

Arabia- 25
Assyria- 10
Austria- 20
Aztec- 17
Babylon- 21
Carthage- 17
Celts- 16
China- 25
Dutch- 17
Egypt - 6
England- 21
Ethiopia- 22
Germany- 24
Greece- 14
Huns- 14
Inca- 21
Indonesia- 17
Japan- 17
Korea- 21
Maya- 24
Mongols- 20
Morocco- 12
Ottoman- 17
Persia- 21
Poland- 21
Polynesia-12
Portugal- 18
Rome- 21
Shoshone- 22
Siam- 22
Songhai- 15
Spain- 19
Sweden- 21
Zulu- 22

Egypt - They are much stronger than suggested here. Early expansion gets good gold from the UB (allowing a large early army) and the UU give a fast strike force over non-rough terrain (otherwise you quickly build roads - the Pyramids). Combining the UA with Monuments to the Gods can help grab a lot of early wonders even at Emperor, according to STEAM stats only 0.1% of players have won at Diety/Immortal

Poland- A 'flavour of the month' civ. No way they are one of the best civs, late UU and the UA only really pays off towards the end of the game.

PS I would love to see some guides on the eliminated civs here to show if they can indeed be awesome
 
Arabia- 26
Assyria- 10
Austria- 20
Aztec- 17
Babylon- 21
Carthage- 17
Celts- 16
China- 25
Dutch- 17
Egypt - 6
England- 21
Ethiopia- 19
Germany- 24
Greece- 14
Huns- 14
Inca- 21
Indonesia- 17
Japan- 17
Korea- 21
Maya- 24
Mongols- 20
Morocco- 12
Ottoman- 17
Persia- 21
Poland- 21
Polynesia-12
Portugal- 18
Rome- 21
Shoshone- 22
Siam- 22
Songhai- 15
Spain- 19
Sweden- 21
Zulu- 22

Arabia - Best combination of a good UA, UB, and UU out of all the civs.

Ethiopia - Both the UA and UU contradict the UB so choosing one play style will render the other parts useless.
 
Arabia- 26
Assyria- 11
Siege tower is strong. 2-3 of these with a few composite/crossbows, maybe a horse or two, can capture cities fast. Coupled with UA on high difficulty nets a lot of free tech. I usually go for early wars, and when the towers become obsolete, switch my game to full science.

Austria- 20
Aztec- 17
Babylon- 21
Carthage- 14
Tried playing her a couple of times but didn't have much success. In continents most good coastal spots are gone by the time you set up a second city. Pangaea her UA not useful. UUs are not impressive either.

Celts- 16
China- 25
Dutch- 17
Egypt - 6
England- 21
Ethiopia- 19
Germany- 24
Greece- 14
Huns- 14
Inca- 21
Indonesia- 17
Japan- 17
Korea- 21
Maya- 24
Mongols- 20
Morocco- 12
Ottoman- 17
Persia- 21
Poland- 21
Polynesia-12
Portugal- 18
Rome- 21
Shoshone- 22
Siam- 22
Songhai- 15
Spain- 19
Sweden- 21
Zulu- 22
 
Arabia- 26
Assyria- 11-3 = 8 Early game warmongering is useless in BNW, in almost all cases. That cuts out the UU. The UB is mediocre. The UA would be good, but early warmongering sucks now and by mid-late game when warmongering is effective you could've just caught up.
Austria- 20
Aztec- 17
Babylon- 21
Carthage- 14
Celts- 16
China- 25
Dutch- 17
Egypt - 6+1 = 7. UA means you can grab GL on Immortal if you rush it, but in general just means you'll get wonders more easily than not. UU is mediocre, but UB is great if you're going wide, and still effective with a 3/4city rush to tall, +2 happiness for no maintenance is great. Not sure why they're getting this hate.
England- 21
Ethiopia- 19
Germany- 24
Greece- 14
Huns- 14
Inca- 21
Indonesia- 17
Japan- 17
Korea- 21
Maya- 24
Mongols- 20
Morocco- 12
Ottoman- 17
Persia- 21
Poland- 21
Polynesia-12
Portugal- 18
Rome- 21
Shoshone- 22
Siam- 22
Songhai- 15
Spain- 19
Sweden- 21
Zulu- 22
 
Carthage- 14
Tried playing her a couple of times but didn't have much success. In continents most good coastal spots are gone by the time you set up a second city. Pangaea her UA not useful. UUs are not impressive either.

I recently played as Dido and got lucky start (several fish\crabs on coastal Capital) and game simply rolled. UA is useful (you immediately get extended TR range + extra gold) but I agree, naval UU is worthless :rolleyes: Elephant is ok, but it shares the same curse as many other Ancient UU - you probably won't have too many of them for later upgrades, since you'll be busy building other more important stuff. :(



Arabia- 26
Assyria- 8
Austria- 20
Aztec- 17
Babylon- 21
Carthage- 14
Celts- 16
China- 25
Dutch- 17
Egypt - 7
England- 21
Ethiopia- 19
Germany- 24
Greece- 14
Huns- 14
Inca- 21
Indonesia- 17
Japan- 17
Korea- 21
Maya- 24
Mongols- 20
Morocco- 12
Ottoman- 17
Persia- 21
Poland- 21
Polynesia- 12 - 3 = 9
Portugal- 18
Rome- 21
Shoshone- 22
Siam- 22
Songhai- 15+1=16
Spain- 19
Sweden- 21
Zulu- 22


Songhai - I gotta save poor little Askia. :lol: His UA is underrated. With barbs on, especially raging barbs, you can hoard up lot of gold. Open Honor to quickly boost culture. Gold from Cities is also great, since in BWN most of the cities tend to go tall, wait till medieval era and you'll get around 300-400 gold from one city. Capital is often worth twice more (around 600-700 gold).

His UB is great, cost no maintenance, gives faith and culture, and it can be boosted with religion (it shouldn't be much of a problem to grab happiness\culture from temples, since AI tends to pick up faith buildings first).

His UU is great. It has no penalty attacking cities, it has 5 movement and it's easily spammable. What more do you really need? Askia is terrible AI tho, and it's one of the main reason why people probably hate Songhai, otherwise solid civ (sure, there are lot better out there, but there are also lot worst and more situational civs, like Polynesia)

Polynesia - just die Polynesia die, already! :lol: (civ only good on water maps. His UA is map dependent, his UU are worthless much like any other ancient era UU in BWN, and his UI is meh. Often you won't get the chance to chain-link several of them, so those tiles are better used elsewhere). Oh,and I really hate Polynesian AI, I want to quickly get Navigation and burn him to the ground every single time. :lol::rolleyes::mad: Wonder\city\religion spammer. It always feels so good dropping :nuke::nuke::nuke: on him. :lol:
 
Arabia- 26
Assyria- 8
Austria- 20
Aztec- 17
Babylon- 21
Carthage- 14
Celts- 16
China- 25
Dutch- 17
Egypt - 7
England- 21
Ethiopia- 19
Germany- 24
Greece- 14
Huns- 14
Inca- 21
Indonesia- 17
Japan- 17
Korea- 21
Maya- 24
Mongols- 20
Morocco- 12
Ottoman- 14 - Civ has naval UA, but is backing it with two land UU's? Neither of UU's have any synergy with UA whatsoever. UA is pretty bad, all it does is that it gives triremes, caravels and ironclads prize ships (destroyers keep prize ships from privateers, don't they?). Janissaries are cool UU but Sipahi is meh.
Persia- 21
Poland- 22 - UA is one of the best ones, free policies is just insanely good, and helps from classical to information. UU and UB have great synergy with each other. Best BNW civ IMO.
Polynesia- 9
Portugal- 18
Rome- 21
Shoshone- 22
Siam- 22
Songhai- 16
Spain- 19
Sweden- 21
Zulu- 22
 
Ottoman ...has naval UA, but is backing it with two land UU's? Neither of UU's have any synergy with UA whatsoever. UA is pretty bad, all it does is that it gives triremes, caravels and ironclads prize ships (destroyers keep prize ships from privateers, don't they?). Janissaries are cool UU but Sipahi is meh.[/COLOR]
So they are the only civ that can capture ships until Privateers by which time they will have a large fleet which costs 33% of the normal cost. The Sipahi is a pillaging machine which will make your enemies very sad.

Also why are people hating on Civs with naval UU? Just because they can't go on land. All maps have water and unless you are only playing on Panagea maps they are useful, sometimes they are useful even on that map. Dismissing Ancient/Classical UU is strange, early war can be very effective if you prioritise it.

I get the feeling that some of the voters here only play 3-4 city tradition openings, Panagea on quick pace. That isn't the only way to play.
 
Arabia- 26
Assyria- 9
Austria- 20
Aztec- 17
Babylon- 21
Carthage- 14
Celts- 16
China- 25
Dutch- 17
Egypt - 4
England- 21
Ethiopia- 19
Germany- 24
Greece- 14
Huns- 14
Inca- 21
Indonesia- 17
Japan- 17
Korea- 21
Maya- 24
Mongols- 20
Morocco- 12
Ottoman- 14
Persia- 21
Poland- 22
Polynesia- 9
Portugal- 18
Rome- 21
Shoshone- 22
Siam- 22
Songhai- 16
Spain- 19
Sweden- 21
Zulu- 22

I used to dislike Assyria's premise until I found out they could use their UA not just for helping them get back up the tech lead, but also to diminish their rivals greatly. Yeah, a couple of diplomatic problems here and there, but who cares about that when you're way ahead of pretty much everyone?

The UU is so good, you don't really have to beeline for Trebuchets until it's inevitable. This means I could just stop until Mathematics (or Currency) and start getting more of the other advanced units instead. I also like how the UB triples as both a "Barracks" and as a small bump for culture and tourism. The latter could even help for some late game conquests. If a person manages to fall even under Familiar influence, that means less time to deal with unrest from conquered cities.

I had to pick Egypt since I have no other idea of whom to pick for elimination. Well I suppose it's because of my gameplay. While I like the UA, I hardly ever use Chariot Archers, let alone the UU. Also, while I love the extra happiness the UB gives, I'm still uncomfortable of the fact that I might be helping my enemies instead if my cities get ambushed. Not that I actually let them take over my cities, but the chances are still there.
 
Top Bottom