MouseGuard and Redwall Civs

[EDIT 10/8/13 - Attached files for all versions of current release mods to the bottom of this post, you should be able to manually installed them with these files if you lack Steam or are on a Mac. Please inform me if they do not operate as expected, I haven't released them like this before and am only half-certain I zipped up the correct files.]


I was actually afraid to post about this here since I wasn't sure how well such an oddball fantasy civ would be received but... I seem to continue getting new subscribers on Steam daily, so... why not? Xp A few interested people is good enough for me.

So, this is the Mouse Guard Civ I made last week,
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=167627452 (Brave New World)
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=136366307 (G&K)
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=136600987 (Vanilla)

Important Stats are,
Leader: Gwendolyn
Unique Ability: Prosperity of the Guard
+2 Culture per turn from Cities.

Unique Unit: Guardmouse (replaces Musketmen)
+2 to Combat Strength and ignores terrain cost to move.

Unique Building: Winter Stores (replaces Granary)
+1 Food and +2 Happiness in addition to normal Granary stats.

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Begin Edit

Redwall is now available!
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=167627709 (Brave New World)
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=145302959 (Gods and Kings)
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=145303180 (Vanilla)

Leader: Martin the Warrior
Unique Ability: Celebratory Feasts
+25% Food Production in cities. Free Walls in the Capital.

Unique Unit: Long Patrol (replaces Swordsman
Ignores terrain cost to move, heals 5HPper turn outside of friendly territory, and gains +25% Defense. Does not require Iron to build.

Unique Building: Great Hall (replaces Amphitheater)
Provides +3 Culture and +2 Happiness.

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Vermin Civilization (Redwall)
Brave New World,
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=167650579
Gods & Kings,
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=167650391
Vanilla Civ,
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=167650193

Leader: Cluny the Scourge
Unique Ability: Warlord of Mossflower
Pays 50% less Unit Maintenence and can Raze Cities at twice the normal speed.

Unique Unit: Marauder (replaces Warrior)
Decreases combat strength of adjacent enemies by 10%

Unique Building: Slave Barracks (replaces Workshop)
Provides +4 Production and Increases Production by 15%, but costs more to build and maintain.

End Second Edit
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Since it went up there were two comments made that I'd like some opinions on. The first is a balancing issue. According to the framework in my head, I would argue this civ is fairly balanced. But I haven't heard many opinions on the matter. The most I got was one guy saying "it looks good but it isn't balanced" and then not specifying HOW it is unbalanced. So I don't really know what to do there.


The second is the idea for a Redwall Civ. I suppose I should have expected Redwall fans to pop up at the mere presentation of something remotely similar to it... XD But hey, if I can make something work for Mouse Guard, why not Redwall? The problem is that I know nothing much about Redwall other than that it is also a series involving anthropomorphic rodents in a medieval fantasy setting and what I've read about it on Wikipedia. At least one of my friends is a fan of the series and I've been discussing it with them, but I've kind of hit a roadblock with the whole thing.

The series is very spread out, with few recurring characters. Though there do seem to be a variety of potential locations to use for city names, many of these are apparently the lairs of villains. And I'm not sure it would mesh well for me to use those (I removed Darkheather as the last city name in my Mouseguard Civ and made it a CityState instead for this very same reason). So I fear I'd be lacking in City Names, have no clue who to place as the civ Leader, aaaand generally have no ideas myself for what to do about the civ Uniques.

So at this point, I guess what I'm asking for is ideas? If anyone here is familiar with the series and wants to pitch suggestions at me, I'm all ears. Because I would love to do something with Redwall, I just don't know what.

I've read the Redwall books, but I'm not really sure what they would get as a Civilization that is iconic enough to fit.

(This thread is going to look odd for people not familiar with the series.)


Anyway, I don't know for sure what to do for city names, but you may consider naming them off of the protagonists in various books.

The main parts of the universe I may point to as reoccuring "cities" were Redwall Abbey and the mountain fortress of Salamandastron, though they would be more accurately represented as different (albeit allied) civilizations.

You might want to browse the wikipedia page to get some grasp of the basics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redwall

EDIT: They might be over the top, but I have some ideas I can pitch if your still looking for them:

Civilization: Redwall

Leader: Martin the Warrior

(Key leader in the founding of Redwall Abbey.)

Unique Ability: Celebratory Feasts

+1 Food and +25% Food per turn in Cities during a Golden Age.

(The books describe various feasts in great depth. This could be a some way of representing that tradition that could be at least a little unique.)

Unique Unit: Great Warrior (replaces Great General)

Nearby units generate Golden Age points upon killing enemies. [Ideally, could fight on its own, scaling with Era.]

(The people of Redwall Abbey are often led by some great hero who brings an age of happiness in the books.)

Unique Building: Sandstone Quarry (replaces Stoneworks)

+1 Happiness from sources of Stone and Marble in addition to other traits.

(If memory serves, Redwall Abbey was constructed using red sandstone, and the quarry providing the materials is an established location in the books.)



Mostly because I just like brainstorming, here is another suggestion.


Civilization: Salamandastron

Leader: Lord Brocktree

(Initiated the modern traditions of Salamandastron, if memory and their wiki is to be trusted. http://redwall.wikia.com/wiki/Brocktree)

Unique Ability: Mountain Fortress

Mountains tiles can be worked to provide +3 Food, increasing to +4 Food with Civil Service. Mountains also provide +1 Culture once Writing is researched.

(If memory serves, crops are grown on the outside of the mountain Salamandastron, though I'll check the book to be sure later. The Culture bonus is there to represent that Badger lords are known to go into a trance and carve their future into the walls of Salamandastron.)

Unique Unit: The Long Patrol (replaces Swordsman)

Ignores terrain cost and starts with Survivalism I.

[+1 extra HP healed per turn when outside of friendly territory.]

(The Long Patrol constitute the Hare army of Salamandastron, and are an elite fighting force known for patrolling far from their mountain fortress.)

Unique Building: Forbidden Forge (replaces Forge)

+2 Production from each Mountain tile in addition to the default bonuses.

Requires a Mountain or a worked source of Iron nearby.

(Salamandastron houses a famous forge that only the current ruling Badger Lord is allowed to enter, aside certain special occasions.)



EDIT:

As far as Mouse Gaurd civ, I am not familiar with the source material and such can only comment on gameplay.

(So pardon me if my suggestions would completely derail an important theme.)

The Unique Ability seems too close to that of France, and I think that they would be a more interesting civilization to play with something more unique, though it could stick to a per city bonus or a culture bonus of some kind.


The Unique Unit looks fine balance-wise in my opinion, though it is very similar to the Minuteman. Would it make any sense to shift it into a Swordsman or Longswordsman replacement?


The Unique Building might been seen as overly strong by some due to the +2 Happiness bonus on a cheap and almost universally useful building making high city strategies too strong.

This may just be my obsession with tile-specific effects talking, but I'd change it to grant +1 Happiness for every Wheat Bananas and Deer tile worked by the city on top of the extra food.

It may be stronger for the first few cities, but the requirement for such a tile would keep it balanced for city-spam tactics.



Anyway, those are my ideas, but whether or not they are any good I'd like to thank you and other modders for enriching the Civ 5 experience.

Oh crap, I hadn't checked this for a while because I didn't see new replies, didn't occur to me you might edit your post XD Okay, let me actually respond to all that.


Alright, what I'd been coming back to say in the first place... Upon actually finding a map of locations in the Redwall series and burning through the wiki for a while, I think I have a pretty decent list of locations that would serve well enough as city names. (Can post it here later if you want to see it) Most would still be potentially minor locations which may have been abandoned at some point or were dens of villainy post-capture' and some I listed may have been too broad an area. It's a good start to work with though. But it still kind of limits me in how many Redwall civs I can make, unless I provided both with the same city names. (I say this because I like Both of your suggestions)

Spies I will probably name after various protagonists though.

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If going the Redwall Abbey route, I wasn't sure who to use for the leader... Martin was certainly the standout choice from what I could tell at a glance, but I wasn't sure if he was appropriate or not. Going by the wiki, the Abbey has been led by various Abbots and Abbesses, so I was thinking one of those would work better but... (a) finding pictures of them looks like it will be difficult, and (b) there's only 28 of them to choose between... >.<;;; Soooo.... Yeeeeeah.... I like Martin the Warrior, lets definitely stick with that. XD

I love the Unique Ability idea, that fits spectacularly well from what I know of the series. The Unique Building idea is something I wouldn't have thought of... so I'm liking that too. Is there a way to set a civ to have a starting preference for certain resources? (I'm pretty sure there must be, but it's something I'll have to look in to)

The Great General replacement idea is the only one I'm having trouble with in my head. I like the idea, I'm just trying to figure out how I'd add that sort of bonus. Especially if I tried including that optional bit about enabling them to fight; or at least defend.

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I think I was liking the Salamandastron ideas even more though. Each of those suggestions fit together into something pretty unique. I'd have to learn how to edit tiles and such for it, but I think that'd be pretty cool.

My only issue is where I look back at my cities list and go "I really don't think I can do both." So I'm pondering what I might could do about combining things between them... perhaps split them back up later? I don't know. I'll keep pondering over it.


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On Mouseguard,
I have source material justifications for everything, but I'd have to admit to some things being based on whatever immediate thoughts came to mind in regards to modding a civ and keeping it balanced. And as you can probably guess then, I did seem to base a fair bit from France.

The UA is France's minus the "you lose it at Steam Power" part(because I think that is the dumbest thing). I'd still like to have a Culture bonus of some type, because that's what makes the most sense in my head, but I'm certainly up for ideas on how to change it. Part of what's held me back from digging too deep into it is the "Looming Threat" of Brave New World hovering over my shoulder and knowing I'm going to have to change everything then anyways. Once I have a full understanding of the Culture changes coming up, I'll try to make something fitting for BNW and then retrofit that appropriately into G&K somehow so that they'll maintain a relatively close similarity.

The UU was originally a Musketeer clone too. As is probably obvious from the unit sprites in game. Halfway through development though I realized that the Ignore Terrain perk would probably make more sense to have on the Guards. And since the Minuteman had it and was also a Musketman replacement, I compared the two units and settled on what looked like an even middle ground between the two for the Guard stats. So, perhaps not terribly original, but certainly balanced without being direct clones, I thought.

The UB was probably the most unique idea I had and I thought it worked out in a fairly balanced way, but I still haven't had the chance to really test how the early happiness boost effects things into the later game if you build a lot of cities. Your suggested change sounds good though... that's another thing I probably wouldn't have thought about and definitely sounds like a more balanced means of handling it. So I'll see about trying that out.

Thanks for your suggestions!

If it wouldn't be too much trouble, I'd like to see your ideas for city names.


On a less important note, after examining the balance of existing unique structures that give I have a bit of a suggestion for my suggestion.

I was thinking of a flat +1 bonus for the Redwall Sandstone Quarry and
the Mousegaurd Winter Stores in addition to the happiness from specific tile yields.

(In retrospect, the tile specific limitation seems weak compared to the flat +2 of the Satrap's Court and the Burial Tomb, even though they require a higher technology. Admitedly, the Burial Tomb has a mix of upsides and downsides that make it hard to directly compare.)

Ideally, the Sandstone Quarry and the Winter Stores would grant more than them with ideal city placement while tending to give less net for a large Empire, due to there being only so many of the relevant resources in relevant locations.


I'd really like to see other Redwall fans post here so my ideas aren't the only ones suggested.

I'll edit the list of names in when I get home(if someone else hasn't replied before then). I meant to do it last night, but then I found out the animated Redwall series was on Netflix and there went my night... XD

*nods* That does sound generally balanced that way. I'll bounce it off some friends to get a second opinion (in case nobody else shows up to comment here Xp).

If you know a few fans you can grab and drag in here, that'd be great. XD I'll try a little harder to dig a few up for consultation myself.

[edit1]
oh, and what kind of difference would it make if I changed the Guard to a Longswordsman replacement? minus the Iron requirement? I don't think I'm going to change it, but I wanted to get an idea of how that would change things, if at all, out of curiosity.

The Gaurd would work well as a Longsword or Musketman, your original concept was balanced imo.

Do bananas/ deer/ wheat show up significantly more than stone and marble?

I don't really know whether or not the flat happiness bonus is needed on the Winter Stores because I don't have a great grasp on how common those food resources are.


Also, would it make sense to give Redwall longer Golden Ages as well as the food for Golden Age, or would that be overpower them compared to Persia?

Getting the food numbers right so that there is a noticeable food growth over the short span of a Golden Age may be tricky.


(Albeit, as I almost exclusively play Marathon mode, my view of timing may be skewed.)

(I tend to play in Quick; so exact opposite problem XD)

Ahh, in my experience Stone is about as generally common as Wheat/Deer/Bananas. Marble seems to be a rarer resource though, probably due to it's added bonus of increased Wonder prodution in cities that have it nearby. If you're comparing the two buildings against each other, then Winter Storage wins just from having more common options available to it. Still, even under favorable conditions, I'd find it rare for you to have a city with more than 2-3 of the Granary-related resources within its boundaries. (Usually something like 2 Wheat or Bananas, and 1 Deer; because you pretty much never find Wheat near Bananas.) It's all ultimately related to your surrounding terrain type though... so you could set a starting preference for terrain that would most likely contain your favored resources.

Purely from the flat or no flat bonus question though... umm... I guess I'd still say to lean towards having the 'just for building it' happiness bonus. Because while food resources can be fairly common, you're still not likely to have them in EVERY city... or even in most of them at times. And on the list of desireable tiles, I'm pretty sure food tiles still rank lowest among player priorities... at least for me I can say that it is really rare for me to build a city in an area just for the food resources. They're usually just something that if you can get, then great, but if not, then no skin off your back. So while the Winter Storeage under your suggestion would make those tiles certainly more valuable, I'm not sure if it would really force anyone to change their playstyle to accomedate it much. As such, keeping at least the +1 default benefit would maintain the building's unique usefulness for happiness generation even under sub-optimal to poor conditions.


For Redwall, if we can make the Great Generals thing work, then I don't think I would throw longer Golden Ages on as well, since those units would already be ensuring that you're having Golden Ages more often than normal (if played right anyways).

Course I have to figure out how to make the food growth during that period work too. So a large part of the current setup depends on how much I can get to actually function.


Sidenote; Finding character images and such seems to be going okay, but I remembered one of the oddballs. The Civ's symbol/chrest icon. For Redwall, I was thinking to use a rose sort of symbol, based on a recurring design I noticed (particularly in the animation). But what would you use in the case of Salamandastron?

Ah, I somehow forgot about the Great General replacement helping to build Golden Age points when I posted, my bad.

I'm honestly not sure what would be best for Salamandastron: perhaps a mountain symbol?

You might be able to include some military motifs also, due to its nature.

Potential City Names
Redwall Abbey
Mossflower Woods*
Saint Ninian's
Brockhall
Kotir
Noonvale
Marshwood Hill*
Fort Marshank**
Northlanks*
Riftgard Fortress
Lingl-Dubbo Cave*
The Quarry*
Salamandastron
Bat Mountpit*
Gingivere's Farm*
Marlfox Island**
Castle Marl**
Castle Floret
The Toadlands*
Holt Rudderwake
Fort Bladegirt**
Sampetra**
Holt Lutra*
Loamhedge Abby**
Holt Summerdell
Moledeep
Peace Island
Southsward*
Southsward Holt
Camp Willow
Camp Tussock


*'d names were marked for potentially being too vague or broad. Or simply being of minor seeming importance... or being abandoned.
**'d names were marked for originally being dens of villainy, which were later abandoned or taken under new ownership once the enemies were dispersed.
(There were a couple other "Holts" I left out too that could be added if they seem fitting.)

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[Edit1]
And just to put it out there, I am starting to question if the Winter Storage Happiness bonus really needs to be changed... Especially now that I'm actually looking at the other unique buildings that provide extra happiness (some of them are even maintenance free). Huuuuuuh.... decisions.... XP

I really wish I could get more input on this. I keep pointing people to it and going "What do you think?" and then they don't really give me any answer. >.<;;


Also for consideration... is there any other Unique building ideas you might have had for Redwall? The only idea I had had prior to hearing your suggestions was for unique Walls of some kind... I still like the quarry idea but I did at least have a few people being all "But there's like a bunch of bad things in/around the quarrys (during certain time periods), they usually avoid those places." Seems like half the time the quarries were good and important, and the other half there were deadly snakes and stuff hanging around them. So I guess that's making people question the happiness bonus for them? I don't know.

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[Edit2]
Another concern that finally struck me. Stoneworks is a building that can ONLY be built if there is improved Stone or Marble near the city. Normally Unique Buildings don't replace buildings that can only be built under certain tile/improvement conditions. (Aztec Floating Gardens replacing Water Mills being one of the few[/only?] exceptions I found.) This could result in several of your Redwall cities never receiving the benefits of your UB.

I also hope you get more feedback, it almost feels pretentious to be the only one suggesting things.

(At least in this thread.)


As I said, I'm obsessed with tile-specific yeild bonuses: I like how they can influence how the game is played and give a sense of specialization.

I mostly think the Sandstone Quarry and the Winter Stores version I suggested would be more fun to use with tile-specific yeilds than a flat bonus.


Balance-wise, the Granary is the first building to buy for a new city while existing happiness unique buildings replace something more expensive to quick-buy for a new city.

Thus, it would be easier to rush-buy Happiness with the Winter Stores.

(Or rushing Granaries on a new city is a bad idea and I'm just a noob that does it.)


I can understand that criticism of the Quarry idea based on what has been in there.

Then again, I assume that by making Redwall a civilization the idea is "What if Redwall existed in this world, and had aims to grow as a civilization?"

In that context, I don't think Quarries would be abandoned for so long.


Anyway, finding alternate ideas for a Redwall UB shouldn't be too hard, so I'll try to think of some.

EDIT: You might try linking this thread to the Workshop page for the Mousegaurd civ, if it gets significant Redwall fan trafic.

I'll make a point of linking to it in a bit then.

and I see your point there on the Winter Storage then.


for other Unique Buildings for Redwall, again, the only thing I've thought of at present were Walls. From what I understand, despite several siege attempts, Redwall Abbey has never fallen to an enemy. Hence my original draw to the idea of Walls... but I'd have probably just copied the Walls of Babylon for that. I'm pondering now if there is anything more original I could do with that, without overpowering them. I was considering the notion of applying a bonus to reduce enemy unit strength within a certain range, if that's even possible to do. Or some other bonus that would work to keep out, say, The Huns, if they attacked in force.

I like the idea of Redwall's UB giving them happiness to work with the Celebratory Feasts UA, if that one is used.

Would it make any sense to give the wall some kind of happiness bonus?

Perhaps a natural +1 with an additional +1 for sources of some combination of food luxury resources worked by the city.

(Wine, Salt, Spices, and Sugar perhaps? Trying to go off the feast theme by rewarding them for sources of food luxuries there.)

I was thinking either Martin as a leader or Matthias as a leader.

For a unique ability? Probably to give a 50% bonus to fortifications for the capital building (Redwall) or maybe higher as in the series the abbey is constantly under raid from vermin and so on. Or maybe something along the lines of production of units during war time or the generation of great generals during wartime. Or looking on the passive side maybe something having to do with the forest, Mossflower woods, maybe it would produce 1 or 2 extra happiness for each forest in territory or something.

For a building I was thinking of a Sandstone Quarry, replacing the normal quarry. This would produce 2 extra production than a normal quarry.Or maybe it could be a Great hall, increasing culture and happiness.

As for the special unit, this one is easy. maybe a squirrel archer or otter slingshot which would have maybe a bonus in forests and for the otter probably a bonus for along the river.

The city names i honestly am stumped on. Obviously the capital would be Redwall but maybe it could have Noonvale. Maybe even Salamandastron but thats something completely different.

Thats all i have so i hope you like my suggestions. (I was Travis the Pineapple on steam)

Okay, so, update.
Presently, unless I find something in existing mods by miracle of stubborn persistence, I'm looking at having to do a lot of "probably not going to be fun" work figuring out LUA code to get the unique ability for Redwall working. But I'm determined to make that work one way or another because I really like the increased food during golden ages idea.

Beyond that however, I'm looking to shift to practical over highly unique options for buildings and units. In particular, I'm going to drop the unique great general idea (for now at least), as I've no clue how to make that work, if making it work is even possible.

Also, while I'm going to keep the Salamandastron civ ideas on hand, that is on indefinite hold until Redwall is completed. After that, I'm postponing any further mod work until after Brave New World is out.

However, for the time being and since I need a replacement, I'm looking at using The Long Patrol idea for Redwall's UU.

And one more pitch I wanted to throw out for Unique building... I'm pulling this largely from what I'm seeing in the animated series, so you can fill me in on how much it ties in with the books, but the tapestries hung around the abbey seem to have significant cultural value. The one depicting Martin in particular is a recurring symbol which affects moral among the citizens. I was considering a 'Redwall Tapestries' building (even if calling that a "building" may not exactly make perfect sense) to replace either the second or third default Culture Building and provide either one of or a combination of the following attributes (in addition to the normal culture bonuses),
*+2 or +3 happiness
*Increased City Defense and/or HP
*Provides units trained in the city with the Morale Promotion
*Provide -1 Culture or +1 Gold Maintaince to counteract extra perks
Thoughts?


Still accepting any other ideas for uniques. And thanks for the input Travis.

I somehow forgot about the tapestries, but you are right about their value.

I'm not sure exactly how to represent them or what bonus to give, but your current idea for them seems fine.

Although it may be a bit much to give a morale boost: bonus happiness is probably enough.

Okay, then I'll probably look at working with just the happiness bonus and some slight defense boost...

If the room they were normally hung in had a name I might could call it that.

I think the room was called the Great Hall, if memory and the wiki are to be trusted.

http://redwall.wikia.com/wiki/Redwall_Tapestry

http://redwall.wikia.com/wiki/Great_Hall

Okay, so... status update.

Firstly, I regretfully admit that I am not going to be able to do anything with LUA coding. I've looked into it for as long as I care to at this time and... I just can't make hide nor hair from it. I've had another programmer friend look at it as well, but he had about as much luck. So... I don't want to waste people's time trying to figure out how to make one thing work.

Secondly, there is no apparent way to implement the proposed trait directly either. Not with the Golden Ages attached anyways. After several failures however, I did finally manage to get a static +25% Food Production boost added. Only difference from the proposal being that it's on all the time rather than just during GAs. I can't see any way to generate a +1 Food bonus in every city though...

I did however find a means of adding +1 Food (or plus one whatever really) to a given tile Improvement type as part of the Civ Trait. For testing purposes I applied +1 Food to Fishing Boats and Plantations. I'm pretty sure this worked, but I wasn't able to get a good look during my test game as barbarians showed up right after I completed my first one and I forgot to look at it while I was moving my worker around. Then the barb pillaged the Plantation and... the game crashed. -.-;; Given that doesn't normally happen, I'm assuming the trait MIGHT have been partially responsible for that? But... I don't know. I can't really prove that it wasn't a freak accident. Not without replicating the event somehow, which I don't have time to attempt tonight.

Due to the game crashing, I also didn't get the chance to test the UB or UU. But they at least were showing up on the tech tree and everything, so I consider that a start. XP

Prior to the game crashing though, I am happy to report that I cleared out enough errors and trait chaos to make the thing actually run properly to begin with though, so I'm extremely happy about that. Because it was not working AT ALL for a good while.

I have to go to bed for work tomorrow now, but I'll continue testing as soon as I can, probably tomorrow night. For reference in the meantime, the following items are coded in...

UA - Celebratory Feasts, Provides +25% Food Production in all Cities. +1 Food from Fishing Boats and Plantations. Free Walls in all Cities.

UB - Grand Hall, Replaces Amphitheater. +3 Culture, +2 Happiness (2 Gold Maintenance)

UU - Long Patrol, Replaces Swordsman. Receives Free Promotions Ignore Terrain and Survivalism I. Does not require Iron to build.


Let me know if you think this could be improved. The current state of the UA is largely the result of me "throwing in everything" once I finally found the code I needed to make various things work.

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Post-testing Edit,
After running a few trials, everything seems to be in working order. I had to go back and edit the names of my image files so that my two mods don't override each other's image files(the loading order caused the mouseguard images to get overridden by the redwall ones if I ran them both at the same time), but otherwise everything is good. I did experience another crash at one point, but for no clearly visible reason this time(certainly wasn't tile pillaging at least), so I'm leaning towards the likelihood of that just being my copy of Civ being screwy. It's not the first time it's messed up recently(without any mods running), so I may just need to try a fresh install. If anyone else notices and can pin down the issue through, I'll try to hammer out a solution.

Otherwise, I'm mostly satisfied with things as they are now, but I'm probably still going to scale back the Trait. I think I'll leave it at just the +25% Food Growth and then I think I know an easy way to start the game with free walls in just the Capital. If there are no objections, I think that will work for now.

I'm still going to postpone publishing to the workshop until I have my Alpha Icon problem settled(it's mostly just the mouseguard one I'm having issue with, the redwall one accidentally came out beautifully) and get a vanilla version of Redwall setup. With any luck it'll be ready by tomorrow though.

Got back from a long vacation recently, but I'll try to get to testing the Redwall faction.

As I said before, I only play Marathon mode games, so it can take me awhile to try things.

I just had a thought that a +1 boost to each tile producing at least one might be easier to code than my original suggestion, if you still want to tie it to Golden Ages.

(Not sure on how that would balance out exactly.)

Apologies for a double post, but its been awhile.