Our World: Civilizations of the Modern Age Design Discussion

I still think improving the capital to the detriment of othet cities is unfairly punitive; Vanilla France doesnt get halved theming bonus in all of its other cities. I still think the UA should be based around happiness and the cult of personality surrounding Turkmenbasi, with a Natural Gas decision. Tourism from natural gas seems VERY weird. When was the last time you heard a kid say to his dad

"Awhh, Disneyland? Dad cant we go to Turkmenistan for our holidays? I wanna see all their natural gas reserves! "

Urdnot_Scott said:

Tourism from natural gas seems VERY weird. When was the last time you heard a kid say to his dad

"Awhh, Disneyland? Dad cant we go to Turkmenistan for our holidays? I wanna see all their natural gas reserves! "

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I get your point but much like the happiness from great works is open to interpretation (Censorship, Propaganda or are the turkmen just really appreciative of culture?), so is the tourism from Oil/Gas. While other countries have movies, music and the rest, basically the only influence from turkmenistan to the outside world is their gas.

So slap some tourism on it.

suggestion:

Turkmenbasy
Great works yield no tourism 1 happiness per each strategic resource worked by the city. great person tile improvements give one extra copy of resource(if built on one), and may also be used to connect luxuries to your trade network.

OR
Turkmenbasy
+1 happiness and no tourism from great works. great person tile improvements yield +2 production, and act as sources of cotton. cotton yields 1 production and has double quantity.

@Tarcisio:

Turkmenbasy
startegic resources increase tourism and happiness from great works by 1(empire wide). great person tile improvments yield tourism and production(2).

and...


Turkmen monopoly
airports and hotels yield 2 happiness and cost no maintenance . each type of bonus\ strategic resource yields 1 tourism in a city per each cargo ship or caravan in it.

tarcisiocm said:

Too stereotypical? Arabia gets double Oil resources and Brazil has the carnival as UA. Maybe it's stereotypical, but it portrays the civilization just fine and is not even offensive. Turkmenistan has its economy based around two things: Gas and Cotton. This is not an stereotype, it's a fact.

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I'd just like to clarify my position here as the main opponent of a UA which grants Natural Gas to Turkmen cities. I never said anything about it being stereotypical because I don't think that's a problem - like you point out, civ is based around stereotypes - not all Ethiopians are valiant martyrs and not all Englishmen are excellent seafarers.

My point is this: All other civ UAs, aside from Arabia's little side-note, (Which, for the record, I oppose completely) are focused on achievements and intrinsic proficiencies of certain peoples and civilisations. Its about the things they do best. England did have some great seafarers over the years and Ethiopia sacrificed a lot to fight off the colonial powers; the only African nation to do so. These are things to be proud of that someone actually did. However, with a UA like

'Receive free copies of the unique resource 'Natural Gas' whenever you settle near desert'

you're implying that the greatest accomplishment of the Turkmen people is their ability to luckily place their nation on top of the fourth largest gas reserves in the world. Noone chose where Turkmenistan would be, and so happening to control a butt load of Gas isn't a Turkmen achievement or a unique facet of their national consciousness. A UA focused on getting bonuses from an already existing natural gas resource would be fine, in my opinion, because it represents what they've done with that resource, but a UA which just grants the resource is, in my opinion, insulting and just plain weird. Its so much better represented in a decision.

Furthermore, the Capital focus advocated by Scape and I doesn't literally mean that Turkmenbasi focused solely on Ashgabat but its symbolic of Turkmenbasi's own egotism, megalomania and the way the entire Turkmen state bent around his whims. I think a civ based around providing the maximum possible bonuses to the location of this guys Palace makes sense here. I mean the guy banned yogurt and renamed all the months after him, family members and his book.

Either way I'm happy to try present a compromise here, hows this?

UA: Father of the Turkmen
Whenever a Strategic resource is connected anywhere in the Empire, trigger a 'We Love the King Day' in the Capital. During We Love the King Day, all Great Works and Wonders yield +2 happiness and +2 production.

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Combine that with this decision:

Decision: Conduct a Geological Survey.
Desctiption: Some of our scientists are insisting that the great Deserts which dominate this nations landscapes could be teeming with untapped wealth just beneath the surface. Let us commission some of these scientists to scour these vast wastes to enrich our coffers!
Costs: 1 Magistrates, 150 gold*current era, 50 science*current era
Requirements: May only be enacted once per era, must be working at least 3 desert tiles and have researched Archaeology.
Rewards: Natural Gas resources have a chance to appear on desert tiles in the empire. Very small chance that the unique Natural Wonder 'Gate to Hell' appears near the capital. For every improved oil, natural gas or coal resource in the empire, receive 50 gold

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And you've a civ focussed on deserts, fossil fuels and keeping the population happy with a lot of monuments and propaganda in the capital. Perfect for a megalomaniac cult of personality built around the sale of natural gas.

Urdnot_Scott said:

snip

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I agree that a whole new resource for the turkmen is unnecessary; that's why my proposal had Oil instead.

UA: Father of the Turkmen
Whenever a Strategic resource is connected anywhere in the Empire, trigger a 'We Love the King Day' in the Capital. During We Love the King Day, all Great Works and Wonders yield +2 happiness and +2 production.

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I don't think this fits for Turkmenistan, the first part should be based on having many of the same strategic resource, while on the second part having bonuses to wonders is stretching the whole thing a too far. Plus having both the Happiness AND the tourism from great works kills the purpose of the thing (Propaganda, Censorship).

How about

'Whenever you improve a strategic resource, receive a gold and production boost in the capital for every copy of that resource you already have. Improved oil, coal and natural gas resources increase the yield of adjacent desert tiles by +1 food and +2 gold.

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I'd go with the Road bonus Scapegrace came up with. Together with a WLTKD second part.

WLTKD sounds very fitting for Turkmenbashi indeed.

Urdnot_Scott said:

How about

'Whenever you improve a strategic resource, receive a food boost in the capital for every copy of that resource you already have. Improved oil, coal and natural gas resources increase the yield of adjacent desert tiles by +1 food and +2 gold.

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Oh yes, that would work. Although a food boost and yield seems somewhat weird here, but this is something minor and if anything can easily be replaced with production. Perhaps a Gold Boost to accompany the food as well (In the first part)?

Hoop Thrower said:

I'd go with the Road bonus Scapegrace came up with. Together with a WLTKD second part.

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Maybe I've misread it, but doesn't that road bonus lead to massively overpowered yields like +300% production and gold from connecting 10 cities?

Hoop Thrower said:

I'd go with the Road bonus Scapegrace came up with. Together with a WLTKD second part.

WLTKD sounds very fitting for Turkmenbashi indeed.

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I don't like a UA which includes downsides as well as bonuses; that isn't how UAs have ever worked except for Indias famously horrible UA.

Maybe I've misread it, but doesn't that road bonus lead to massively overpowered yields like +300% production and gold from connecting 10 cities?

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Also this

why no cotton related UAs?! really people....

That probably isn't the number one thing people think of when they hear 'Turkmenistan'.

I'm loving the extensive discussion on this issue. I am all about a UA not being punitive. My current (brief) thoughts are:
-+1 (or whatever) happiness per GW, rather than no tourism.
This way, Culutre victory is not impossible, just the civ is not exactly designed for it.
-I want to retain Capital-centric yield shifting, but make it less a transfer and more a bonus.
-Of course anything which should be capped will be capped.

Don't forget we have multiple components to work with, UA as well as UB, for establishing a unique playstyle based on Niyazov. What if the Happiness and capital bonuses were in the UA, and WLTKD factored into the UB? UB could also be a non-conquest Courthouse replacement.

Okay then how about this

UA: Father of Turkmen
Great works in the capital provide +1 happiness while Great works in other cities grant +1 production in the capital. Worked strategic resources also provide their base yield in the capital if improved.

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This is poorly worded and probably too cluttered but the ideas are there. Still capital focused, without penalising your other cities, and still with an opportunity to focus a tad on Natural Gas through the decision through the strategic resource focus. The Strategic resource thing would mean that if you improve, say, a coal resource somewhere in the empire, the capital would get +2 production while its being worked.

I rather like that one.

Scotty, that is one great UA!

Agreed with the others. That's great. I'll transpose that to the OP.

ayy im useful

I agree, that's actually really good.

If thats the UA more or less sorted, do we know what the UB or UU will be?

EDIT: Oh god there needs to be an event or decision based around Turkmenbasis book; Ruhnama. Its hilarious how much this guy values his book. Some quotes from wikipedia:

In March 2006, Niyazov was recorded as saying that he had interceded with God to ensure that any student who read the book three times would automatically get into heaven.

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In May 2004, the government-controlled website Turkmenistan: The Golden Age released a statement announcing the phasing out of "several educational and scientific directions and subjects of minor importance." The teaching of algebra, physics, and physical education effectively ended in Turkmenistan. In place, students were encouraged to memorize the Ruhnama

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In August 2005, the first part of the Ruhnama was jettisoned out the airlock of a Russian shuttle so that it could "conquer space" as well. It is supposed to orbit Earth for the next 150 years.

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There is an enormous mechanical statue of the book in Ashgabat, the country's capital. Each evening at 8:00 pm, the cover opens and a recording of a passage from the book is played with accompanying video.

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Knowledge of the text (up to the ability to recite passages from it exactly) is required to qualify for a driving license

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Well, the UB will most certainly be a statue. I called it Edifice in my drafts, so it sounded generic enough but also would avoid conflict with any mod that added a Statue generic buidling. Scape had a good design a while back. Also, Scape is the only person who managed to find a UU.

UB: Altyn Heýkel (replaces Monument)
+2 Culture. In cities other than the Capital, lowers Production, Gold, and Science by 1. The Capital generates +1 additional Production, Gold, Science, and Culture for each Altyn Heýkel in the Empire.
UU: Basmachi (replaces Great War Infantry)
Cities training a Basmachi enter a We Love The King Day for the duration of the unit's construction. Upon completion, generates a flat amount of Culture equal to double its Combat Strength plus its starting Experience. Basmachi trained in the Capital start with the unique promotion "Turkmen Guard", which allows them to earn experience twice as fast when fighting in their own territory. Basmachi can attack other Turkmen units; if they destroy them, the Capital enters a 5-turn We Love The King Day.

Scape's UB name is golden statue in Turkmen I tihnk. I want to move away from the negative effects, and we've moved the yield-shifting up to the UA. I tihnk a WLTKD focus would be appropriate. Perhaps its completion triggers a WLTKD, or extendings the length of WLTKDs in this city by 50%?

The UU is a good idea as a unit to choose. If the UB does WLTKDs then the UU should not. Attacking other Turkmen units may not be codeable, and also abusable. But based on my (limited) research I think it is the correct choice of a UU.

and yes, events and decisions will be very, very fun.