Planetfall

Quick comment:

Well, there's stuff in here. And yes, it is that same list I posted over four months ago. ^^;

I meant we need more ideas for tech contents (buildings, civics, etc) for the current techs before adding more techs.
 
Quick comment:



I meant we need more ideas for tech contents (buildings, civics, etc) for the current techs before adding more techs.
I guess I'll need to look in the mod again to see what's already there, then.

In the mean time, I could mention that I had this crazy idea in... maybe 2000... of a place with lots of gravity generators that could provide both industrial and recreational purposes. (Think roller coaster/factory hybrids.) I called it the Graviton Park. Looking back, I don't know how realistic such a facility would be, but I do think it would be fun for there to be one that directly increased both industry and happiness.
 
I meant we need more ideas for tech contents (buildings, civics, etc) for the current techs before adding more techs.

Maybe instead you could trim out all of the exraneous technologies and consolidate the exsisting content into other stuff. 20 possible techs doesn't do anything to expand a player's choices if most of them have no worthwhile content.

Reason for that rather messy situation is that if I just give aquaformer impassability for ocean tiles, they can still move on sea fungus even if it's on ocean tiles and possibly cross to another continent. And while some limited exploration with them seems ok, I don't want aquaformers to be able to explore the whole world that early in the game. I don't know - perhaps an alternative solution could be to make them unable to enter unexplored territory (like spies), but always able to enter fungus.

This seems totally arbitrary to me. Work boats, foil formers, and unity foils could all explore early. Why can't the player do it with aqua formers? I mean, if he or she chooses to do that it will probably get eaten by an Isle of the Deep anyway.
 
1) I actually like the terrain graphics, they are very SMAC-ish. Gives me nostalgia, but I feel the ocean is far to bright... I think it should be darker...

Don't get me wrong! I like the overall look of them too, it's just that rainy flatlands look drab compared to midland/highland graphics. The latter I find interesting.
 
(personally i find the terrain a bit too bright and cartoonish, but its really no big deal :p)

That's kind of how SMAC was. I actually had an old VGA monitor once that only had purple color left for about a week before I could get a new one. I still played SMAC, but it was hard on the eyes!
 
That's kind of how SMAC was. I actually had an old VGA monitor once that only had purple color left for about a week before I could get a new one. I still played SMAC, but it was hard on the eyes!

fair enough :p ive never played SMAC before so i wouldnt know :) it would be nice if someone came up with more Civexque terrain though ;)
 
As a huge fan of SMAC still nowadays playing it I'm really excited about this project. Can't cheer the whole initiative enough!

I'll definitely stick around and see if I can offer my help with one thing or another :)

(personally i find the terrain a bit too bright and cartoonish, but its really no big deal :p)

Yeah, I think it is a bit glaring as well. Even the original graphics I thought were pretty opaque and these don't mesh all that well with the color palette of Civ.

I really can't say much, as I probably couldn't do better myself, but the fungus is a bit rough. I'd change it to be a bit more uniform. Capelli d'angelo Pasta style instead of the Red Bean Casserole approach, if you get what I mean...
 
This is looking fricking great! I've been so keen for a SMAC mod, and it's great to see it in the flesh like this! I'm really excited about the future of this one!

Just a suggestion: there's a lot of new stuff from BtS that would make either a really good basis or at least just placeholders for units/buildings, particularly from NextWar and Final Frontier.

The Final Frontier fighters would make good needlejets, the colony ship sunk into the ground a bit would make a good colony pod, the stealth ship would make a good bomber-type needlejet, the construction ship combined with a tank chassis or just hovering as-is would make a good former, and a lot of the ships would make good boats. There's also some improvements (capital shipyard, extraction facility) that would make good buildings or terrain improvements.

The NextWar antitank infantry would make a good rocket infantry, and I'm sure you could get some use out of the cyborg, automaton and clone worker. There's also some building graphics that are begging to be used.

I can't really do models and stuff, but I'd be happy to do some unit/building retextures for you guys if you like.
 
Okay. My chart on average tech variability has been changed to accommodate for the knowledge of Eudaimonia, Terraforming, and Stable Neutronium being repeating techs.
Spoiler :

As for stuff to go into the Planetfall mod, I personally suggest placing in great deals of what existed in SMAC/X and has yet to make it here. Why don't I see facilities like the Children's Creche, Nanohospital, Quantum Converter, and Tachyon Field in the current list? I think most of the ones taken away could be re-added...
Spoiler :
Children's Creche: Stores more growth, less city maintenance, possibly +1 free unit per few of these.
Hab Complex and Habitation Dome: Increased health and happiness each.
Nanohospital: much like the Research Hospital.
Nanoreplicator: depends on what's to be replicated. Buildings? Equipment? Food? People? Usage may depend on civics.
Paradise Garden: increased happiness, possibly increased wealth.
Quantum Converter: increased production, increased energy.
Skunkworks: units build faster, slightly increased research.
Stockpile Energy: turns minerals to energy.
Tachyon Field: increased city defense.
Temple of Planet: low chances of fungal blooms, more experience for native life units.
As an addition, I think it'd be interesting to see a few other additions.
Spoiler :
Energy Grid: increased energy and decreased maintenance.
Data core: increased research. Requires a Network Node.
Transit System: Increased health, two cities with the Transit System and few movement points can see population and/or food sources slowly migrating from cities with less happiness/health to cities with more happiness/health.
Neural Amplifier: Increases Psi Defense in that base.
Graviton Park: Usage of gravity to emulate roller-coaster-style recreation and industry at same time. Or at least some late-game comic relief. Increased happiness and industry.
Another bizarre idea: What if the research effect of Network Nodes increased with the establishment of more Network Nodes?

Now what about secret projects? Which ones would be one per faction and which would be one per game? Here are my personal ideas.
Spoiler :
Merchant Exchange: One per game. And stronger than it is in normal SMAC.
Command Nexus, Maritime Control Center, Cyborg Factory, Cloudbase Academy: Not sure. Would one per game be too game-breaking? And what if these were mixed? Should probably each require their smaller, one-base counterparts in thebase where built.
Empath Guild: One per faction, and avoid infiltration, as it means factions can too easily see their rivals' progress on planetary projects.
Planetary Datalinks: One per game. After all, it is planetary. Should require a Network Node be built inthe base.
Supercollider: One per faction.
Xenoempathy Dome: One per game. It can be where Planet responds to the first one first.
Hunter Algorithm System: One per game. Or one per faction and greatly weakened.
Universal Translator: One per game. Can act much like the Oracle of Civ4.
Dream Twister: One per faction or one per base. Increased Happiness, units built here start with Empath Song.
Network Backbone: One per game, maybe. Perhaps requires a Data Core or something.
Space Elevator: One per faction. Necessary for sky farms.
Nenthack Terminus: One per faction, maybe.
Telepathic Matrix: One per planet. Either weakened at home or providing weak benefits to other factions.
Bulk Matter Transmitter: One per faction, maybe. Much increased industry on one city.
Manifold Harmonics: One per planet, maybe.
Singularity Inductor: One per faction or one per planet while aiding everyone to an extent.
Voice of Planet: One per planet, allows everyone to start work on transcendence.

Note, I left out things like the Theory of Everything, Longevity Vaccine, the Citizens' Defense Force, and Ascetic Virtues. The first two are more like discoveries than anything, and would pore likely come as direct benefits with whatever their prerequisites would be. (+research with Unified Physics, +health and happiness with Bio-Engineering.) Meanwhile, the Citizens' Defense Force and Ascetic Virtues sound more like social programs, or perhaps even civics, than anything provided through industrial construction.
I have also thought up some other possible projects.
Spoiler :
Planetary Council Headquarters. Requires contact with all other factions on planet. No tech prerequisite. Allows council meetings. Provides contact with any two factions that have yet to meet. Grants builder with extra votes in the council.
Orbital Defense. One per team. Acts like SDI.

I've had some thoughts toward units, as well, but they're in less detail.
If going with the workshop, I suggest adding practically everything from regular SMAC/X and then some. Also, distinctions should be made between physical equipment and experience-based promotions. If going with pre-made units, there should be provided a good number of them to represent everything. Either way, we must try to set up similarly advanced units aginst each other like a complicated game of rock, paper, scissors.
 
Okay. So I was wondering about how the Nessus Mining Stations would work, assuming they'd show up in the game at all. I soon came up with a somewhat wild idea: What if we somehow got Nessus to have its own map? Along with maybe even maps of other worlds like Eurytion? For graphics, they can start with purely arid terrain. In any case, after building your space elevator or something, you can start building spacesrafts that will send a (rather expensive) colony to whatever world is reachable with current technology. Then maybe once you're there, you can start mining and stuff all you want because it won't provoke fungal blooms unless the place gets terraformed enough to support them and someone introduces them. Of course, another challenge may be to get the minerals back down to Chiron, which may require another space elevator. (I suppose one question to ask is, can this all be reasonably done?)

Maybe with Gravitonics or Super Tensile Solids, it should be possible to build the space elevator farther away from the equator than 30 degrees latitude. Just in case a faction gets confined to relatively polar regions.

The Sky Hydroponics Labs and Orbital Power Transmitters are even wilder, but they may be a bit easier to model.
The sky farms can get vitrually unlimited sunlight, but they would need lots of soil and other material resources to aid the plants. The delivery system might also be an issue unless the people live there.
The Orbital Power Transmitters may have even fewer limits, although too much light beaming down may start to incinerate the atmosphere or damage equipment meant to recieve the large amounts of energy. Perhaps if eachbase built one that would increase the energy gain by 1 for every two solar collectors controlled by the base. Maybe sky farms can be the same way, but with increasing food, and responding to practically everything with more than enough soil to spare plenty.

The above are merely suggestions. I have no idea what everyone else here thinks about it all. o.o
 
Some note in advance: I'd prefer base facilities to have as much as possible:
1) original effects, ie eg no multiple buildings all giving a hammer production bonus
2) two effects, eg Clinic 1) +health, and 2) +1 doctor slot, or Virtual World 1) +1 happiness and 2) +2 XP, to create some interesting combinations/synergies. This also helps keep each building original (goal 1) even if one of the effects might occur in several buildings (eg a health bonus).

Many of the buildings currently in Planetfall don't meet these conditions, so ideas for the effects of those are also very welcome.

As for stuff to go into the Planetfall mod, I personally suggest placing in great deals of what existed in SMAC/X and has yet to make it here. Why don't I see facilities like the Children's Creche, Nanohospital, Quantum Converter, and Tachyon Field in the current list? I think most of the ones taken away could be re-added...

Tachyon Field - I guess I'll add it to Temporal Mechanics. Though as you may guess I'd prefer to have it some other effects besides just giving a defense bonus.

Children's Creche - this is more or less in as the Hatchery. That name is inspired from Brave New World, and IMO it kinda fits in the dark & gritty "film noir" sci fi story that SMAC mostly is. Though many people don't seem to like it. :p I guess I might rename the building back to Creche, except perhaps for the Hive.

Nanohospital - as far as I'm concerned out unless some different effects than for the Research Hospital can be thought of.

Quantum Converter - out for same reason: already enough ideas for buildings that can increase hammer production

Hab Complex and Habitation Dome: Increased health and happiness each.

I could add an Arcology building to Contained Ecosystems which gives extra health (and preferably some other effect). Not sure where Hab Complex or Habitation Dome could fit though.

Nanohospital: much like the Research Hospital.

Which is exactly the problem. :D

Paradise Garden: increased happiness, possibly increased wealth.
Skunkworks: units build faster, slightly increased research.
Data core: increased research. Requires a Network Node.

What techs would enable this?

Temple of Planet: low chances of fungal blooms, more experience for native life units.

Haven't added this one yet, as I'm not sure yet what tech should enable it. I guess I'll just add it to some random centauri tech now, and see later. ;)

Energy Grid: increased energy and decreased maintenance.

I was thinking of an Energy Nexus building with Superconductor which decreased distance maintenance. Or just make the effect automatic with having the Superconductor tech.

Graviton Park: Usage of gravity to emulate roller-coaster-style recreation and industry at same time. Or at least some late-game comic relief. Increased happiness and industry.

Sounds like a possibility, but there already are plenty of effects that can be thought of for the Gravitonics tech. Though of course these effects could later be split into two gravitonics-related techs, so it's something to keep in mind. :)

We've moved a thread on buildings in the public forum btw.

Okay. So I was wondering about how the Nessus Mining Stations would work, assuming they'd show up in the game at all. I soon came up with a somewhat wild idea: What if we somehow got Nessus to have its own map?
...
(I suppose one question to ask is, can this all be reasonably done?)

No. :D

Anyway, I was thinking about perhaps the following:

Sky Hydroponics: +1 free specialist, but -1 happiness and perhaps -1 health

Mining Station: some extra minerals but the maximum bonus is limited to the number of Forts/Bunkers/Military Complexes/whatever name in your base radius. These acts as air bases in BtS, so the idea would be that those represent Aerospace Complexes and its infrastructure necessary to transport the minerals to Chiron. The Aerospace Complex and Space Elevator could affect the maximum bonus.

Cloudscoop: provides Helium locally

Solar Power Transmiiter: boosts energy production of solar collectors in the base radius

Re Nessus/Asteroid/whatever Mining Station effects being tied to terrain improvements, advantage is these facilities are then tied more to other parts of the game such as your terraforming strategy and combat tactics (pillage your enemy's air bases!).
 
Some note in advance: I'd prefer base facilities to have as much as possible:
1) original effects, ie eg no multiple buildings all giving a hammer production bonus
2) two effects, eg Clinic 1) +health, and 2) +1 doctor slot, or Virtual World 1) +1 happiness and 2) +2 XP, to create some interesting combinations/synergies. This also helps keep each building original (goal 1) even if one of the effects might occur in several buildings (eg a health bonus).

Many of the buildings currently in Planetfall don't meet these conditions, so ideas for the effects of those are also very welcome.
Hmm... Well, I suppose things that can be affected are research, wealth, maintenance, espionage, culture, specialists, happiness, health, population growth, planet rating, terrain types, production, experience points of units, city defense, unit repair, instant movement... Anything I'm missing here? Kinda looks like there's potential for up to 120 different facilities. Not that I'd argue trying to find one for each combination a necessity.
Tachyon Field - I guess I'll add it to Temporal Mechanics. Though as you may guess I'd prefer to have it some other effects besides just giving a defense bonus.
Hmm... What if the tachyon field also acted as a giant screen on which things can be displayed? Would that possibly constitute a culture bonus?
Children's Creche - this is more or less in as the Hatchery. That name is inspired from Brave New World, and IMO it kinda fits in the dark & gritty "film noir" sci fi story that SMAC mostly is. Though many people don't seem to like it. :p I guess I might rename the building back to Creche, except perhaps for the Hive.
Ah. Yeah... I probably should have paid more attention to the new facilities... Whoops. >.>;
Nanohospital - as far as I'm concerned out unless some different effects than for the Research Hospital can be thought of.
Well, there's happiness, health, and maybe the rate at which units in this building get repaired. Maybe if it involved any two of those?
Quantum Converter - out for same reason: already enough ideas for buildings that can increase hammer production
Factory, Genejack Factory, Assembly Hall, Nanoreplicator, Subsea Trunkline, Nessus Mining Station... Aw, man. D:
I could add an Arcology building to Contained Ecosystems which gives extra health (and preferably some other effect). Not sure where Hab Complex or Habitation Dome could fit though.
To me, an Arcology sounds a whole lot like a Hab Complex or Hab Dome. Or maybe even a combination of both. Maybe there Complex could involve some increases in wealth or whatnot.
Which is exactly the problem. :D
Well, somewhat like I said, I suppose it could replace research with health and/or unit healing or something.
What techs would enable this?
Mainly ones that would have to be re-added to the game. Like Sociometrics or Econometrics for the Paradise Garden and Quantum Computers or Quantum Mechanics for the Data Core. Maybe something along the lines of Chaos Theory or Field Modulation or whatnot for the Skunkworks?
Haven't added this one yet, as I'm not sure yet what tech should enable it. I guess I'll just add it to some random centauri tech now, and see later. ;)
Perhaps something in the late game, like where Centauri Psi or Secrets of Alpha Centauri were in SMAC/X.
I was thinking of an Energy Nexus building with Superconductor which decreased distance maintenance. Or just make the effect automatic with having the Superconductor tech.
The Energy Nexus sounds pretty cool. :D
Sounds like a possibility, but there already are plenty of effects that can be thought of for the Gravitonics tech. Though of course these effects could later be split into two gravitonics-related techs, so it's something to keep in mind. :)
Okay. ^^
We've moved a thread on buildings in the public forum btw.
Cool, thanks! :D
Aw. But yeah, I can see how making extra maps per game is a bit much to ask for.
Anyway, I was thinking about perhaps the following:

Sky Hydroponics: +1 free specialist, but -1 unhappiness and perhaps -1 health

Mining Station: some extra minerals but the maximum bonus is limited to the number of Forts/Bunkers/Military Complexes/whatever name in your base radius. These acts as air bases in BtS, so the idea would be that those represent Aerospace Complexes and its infrastructure necessary to transport the minerals to Chiron. The Aerospace Complex and Space Elevator could affect the maximum bonus.

Cloudscoop: provides Helium locally

Solar Power Transmiiter: boosts energy production of solar collectors in the base radius

Re Nessus/Asteroid/whatever Mining Station effects being tied to terrain improvements, advantage is these facilities are then tied more to other parts of the game such as your terraforming strategy and combat tactics (pillage your enemy's air bases!).
Sounds like it'll work. :3
 
Perhaps you could add the iTradeYields tag from civics to buildings? Then nessus could grant hammers from trade routes, sky hydroponics food from trade, etc etc. This would give them a completely unique effect, one not shared by any vanilla building.
 
I just thought of an interesting way to fold the religion aspect of Civ into Planetfall while reading some of the Alpha Centauri tech blurbs.

Have Planetarianism (or whatever name) be founded after a given Planet tech is researched. Then, as PTSM spreads, you gain a speed boost on building the Voice of Planet. Hell, maybe getting your entire faction into PTSM could replace the secret project!
 
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