[Speculation] Italian States/Papal States/Venice
- Thread starter sukritact
- Start date
My sincere opinion? Because, gameplay-wise, the flavor of maintaining italians CS's as they are just... doesn't matter. It adds so little to the game... most wouldn't really care for the change.
And because I think italy has much more to add as a civilization than in the form of half a dozen CS's waiting to be trampled by Mongols
And really, nothing stops Firaxis from adding them in a separate list of city-state names that only come into play when Italy's not present.
With that I agree. I would much rather see another non-european civilization.
But i think Italy's chance is actually bigger. At least, if they add any European civ besides Portugal, I think this one has the most chance.
So would any other choice of Civ, and it wouldn't overlap with Roman Italia and needless create another duct taped Civ in Europe, the place that needs it the least. All the other cases, which were slammed by a few, have some genuine justification and were genuinely interesting choices that are interesting to play.
Technically we shouldn't have Greece in game then and instead have Athens, Sparta, Thebes and Corinth as city states. Yet we have Greece in game and people are happy. Even if people bashed on Polynesia for it's duct tape style, there are still more people who are simply happy about the civ then there are people who can't live with a Maori lead by Kameha.
Greece was a unified Empire, and Greece acted a whole in many points in it's history. The more important point though is that of Civilization against nations. Italy can be covered by a combination of Rome and the City States, to cover Greece with just City States would be rather odd considering it's history and that it had at times acted as one Civilization.
The Hunnic Empire was mostly in Europe, even if you feel the Huns aren't European.
For a few years under an arguably foreign ruler. The only other notable time they worked together was when Persia invaded. Otherwise, they fought. Meanwhile, Polynesia never acted as a whole.
Anyway; anyone think a Great Person UU would work for Italy? Though it may be more interesting as a UA.
Greece was never fully unified until the 20th century, even Alexander didn't rule over all of Greece.
The Italians cities acted as a unified force on several occasions as well, just like the Greeks they would sometimes stop fighting each other and unify against an outside threat to their freedom and autonomy.
I'd say a crossbow, pikeman or a cheaper knight UU would be better. Great people are too rare to be reliable UU imho.
Gucumatz
JS, secretly Rod Serling
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2011
- Messages
- 6,181
And the Maya are another example. A bunch of city states that sometimes allied themselves together and may have conquered a few other city states, but existed in a fairly cyclical balance of power system. The only time it could be argued that any major group of Maya city states were allied would have to be under the reign of Teotihuacan (A foreign conquerer from the west) and during the conquests of the Toltec King/Prophet Quetzalcoatl [Who was an exile anyways, so could be argued he unified part of the Maya world or that he conquered territory in the name of the Toltecs]
That said I don't see any of these 3 getting in nor do I really want them in.
The odds in my opinion are:
1. Papal States
2. Venice (Nearly same odds as Papal States)
...
A drop off... 3. Italy
And even then those are low odds. I mean less than 5% odds for each one of those
That said I don't see any of these 3 getting in nor do I really want them in.
The odds in my opinion are:
1. Papal States
2. Venice (Nearly same odds as Papal States)
...
A drop off... 3. Italy
And even then those are low odds. I mean less than 5% odds for each one of those
I suggest that you don't look into the history of any other Civilization in the game, you'd be horrified by the sounds of it.
I'm not attacking the existing civs! I'm just saying Italy is no worse!
Bonci
King
Maybe a Pavise Crossbowman. Or they could nod at the post unification period and use the Bersaglieri.
They could also use a naval UU, but because the galeass is already a unit for everyone I cannot come up with a specific proposal XD
Would a Papal Gonfalonier make sense as a Great General replacement?
What I find funny is that the Italian cause is being led by people with pretty much nothing to do with Italy whatsoever. I think the point I'm trying to make is that given the eurocentric nature of the game there will almost certainly be another European civ in the expansion, if not two. Portugal seems to be a given based on prior appearances and the Scramble for Africa scenario, and of those few remaining in Europe I'd rather have Italy than something like Armenia, Yugoslavia, Belgium etc. Obviously I'd prefer an expansion with lots of new and unique civs such as Kongo, Zimbabwe, Teotihuacan etc. but realisticly I know chances are it won't be all like that.
Gucumatz
JS, secretly Rod Serling
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2011
- Messages
- 6,181
I think so. But if the Papal States were to be included I bet we would see the Swiss Guard somehow instead
Doing a bit of reading Pavisiers sound pretty cool!
I don't think the problem is finding city states to replace the 5/6 Italian city states, there are endless options. I think the problem is that these CS were the inspiration for the system. It would feel like a waste if they introduced CS, just to later take Venice, Genoa, Florence, etc out.
Additionally, there's enough Europe as is. Poland is confirmed, and Portugal is likely joining
worship. Assuming we get two Africans, three Asians, and a North American native, I would prefer the last spot be spent on a modern S. American like Brazil or Argentina.
Additionally, there's enough Europe as is. Poland is confirmed, and Portugal is likely joining
worship. Assuming we get two Africans, three Asians, and a North American native, I would prefer the last spot be spent on a modern S. American like Brazil or Argentina.
Bonci
King
Uhm I think it would be a bit weird because often Papal Gonfalonieri were foreign kings and notorious condottieri. So at that point we could just as well have condottieri. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonfaloniere_of_the_Church
Also, to the ones that are saying that Italy isn't a worthy civilization: can you tell me, aside from gameplay considerations that I'm well aware of, where do you find it lacking?
I don't think the problem is finding city states to replace the 5/6 Italian city states, there are endless options. I think the problem is that these CS were the inspiration for the system. It would feel like a waste if they introduced CS, just to later take Venice, Genoa, Florence, etc out.
Additionally, there's enough Europe as is. Poland is confirmed, and Portugal is likely joining
It's unlikely we'll get three civs from Asia. I'd be pleasantly surprised if got Assyria, Indonesia and some other Asian civ(Burma or Vietnam would be nice), but it seems unlikely to me. Most likely there's going to be 2 civs from Asia, 2 from Africa, 2 from the Americas and 3 from Europe.
Similar threads
