Civics Improvements Suggestions

I'm going on with my test. I'm one of the strongest civs, I'm using Imperium right now. Why on earth would someone use Redevelopment (no one is using it until now)? I would spend +550 gold per turn to help some small civ with 2-3 cities each while they're probably about to be wiped out by larger civs... Shouldn't Redevelopment give you some other advantage? And about Imperium, 5 major civs are using it right now but they don't seem to be involeved in more wars than before you introduced these new civics. And by the way, why would someone bother about being disliked by some small civs? My strenght ratio with civs that hate me because of imperium is between 2.1 and 35.7 in my favour. And none of them will of course ever declare war on me. In the meantime other major civs don't care about my civic. That's why I was suggesting that other major civs should hate you for imperium, not minor civs.

Edit: Even more, if I use imperium, I get all the gold benefits and smaller civs get all the gold penalties, especially since they will probably use Appeasement; wouldn't that render useless that relations +3 or -3? So basically relations remain the same between stronger and lesser civs because + / - compensate; but the strongest civs get a lot of gold while smaller civs lose a lot of gold. Doesn't seem very balanced to me, unless I'm missing something.

Edit2: don't get me wrong, I like these new civics ideas very very much but if there's not anything I'm missing, they need balancing
 
Africa's ebola crisis gave me the idea of a new welfare civic: qarantine.
  • +10 :health:
  • +10 :mad:
  • increases rebelliousness
  • +1 :) per military unit in city
civic building: Quarantine camp
  • +0.2 :health: / pop
  • +0.2 :mad: / pop

The numbers are random, just brainstorming. I don't know if we need it or not, just and idea. But it could be useful if one lacks :health: resources.
 
Sogroon said:
Africa's ebola crisis gave me the idea of a new welfare civic: qarantine.
Click to expand...

There is no conceivable situation where these would be useful, really.

45°38'N-13°47'E;13416771 said:
I'm going on with my test. I'm one of the strongest civs, I'm using Imperium right now. Why on earth would someone use Redevelopment (no one is using it until now)? I would spend +550 gold per turn to help some small civ with 2-3 cities each while they're probably about to be wiped out by larger civs... Shouldn't Redevelopment give you some other advantage? And about Imperium, 5 major civs are using it right now but they don't seem to be involeved in more wars than before you introduced these new civics. And by the way, why would someone bother about being disliked by some small civs? My strenght ratio with civs that hate me because of imperium is between 2.1 and 35.7 in my favour. And none of them will of course ever declare war on me. In the meantime other major civs don't care about my civic. That's why I was suggesting that other major civs should hate you for imperium, not minor civs.

Edit: Even more, if I use imperium, I get all the gold benefits and smaller civs get all the gold penalties, especially since they will probably use Appeasement; wouldn't that render useless that relations +3 or -3? So basically relations remain the same between stronger and lesser civs because + / - compensate; but the strongest civs get a lot of gold while smaller civs lose a lot of gold. Doesn't seem very balanced to me, unless I'm missing something.

Edit2: don't get me wrong, I like these new civics ideas very very much but if there's not anything I'm missing, they need balancing
Click to expand...

I agree, and I disagree. First off, I agree Imperium may be a bit too powerful. I would be ok if you added an additional global -1 relations to Imperium.

I disagree that Redevelopment is useless. You have not considered the possibility of a diplomatic or cultural victory. In either of those, improved relations would be extremely helpful in avoiding wars and getting diplomatic votes in your favor. Plus, as you point out, giving lots of gold to weaker civs would make them less likely to be crushed by stronger civs.

If you wanted to make Redevelopment a bit stronger, I'd be okay if you added +25% culture to all cities to that civic.
 
I can try your changes, but aiming at diplomatic victory with redevelopment doesn't look a good strategy. You don't really need votes from a bunch of civs whose total votes won't change anything (100 votes over 2500 won't move many decisions - numbers are approximate). I'll try what you are proposing :)

Edit: I've tried your suggestion and it looks ok for Imperium at least.
 
4 experiences from Caste and Warrior Caste combo? Wow, a powerful combo for very early game. Maybe reduce Caste experience gift and reduce negative side effect to balance that? Or just plain revise Society to Civil Society?
 
I'm going on with my test, it looks like your changes improved AI behaviour quite a bit Afforess. It's the first time I see a 7 cities Republic being a tech leader and one of the strongest civs, even against more 12-13 cities civs, mostly using monarchy. Really impressive. :goodjob:
 
45°38'N-13°47'E;13421440 said:
I'm going on with my test, it looks like your changes improved AI behaviour quite a bit Afforess. It's the first time I see a 7 cities Republic being a tech leader and one of the strongest civs, even against more 12-13 cities civs, mostly using monarchy. Really impressive. :goodjob:
Click to expand...

That was my goal. I knew it would take all the civic changes I wanted before it would work. ;)
 
Afforess said:
That was my goal. I knew it would take all the civic changes I wanted before it would work. ;)
Click to expand...

Oh, where's the Like button to punch at while I yell "Yes, victory!"
 
Man. I guess Republic shouldn't be really used if you have 2+ cities. Although, maybe if you have 5 rather close by cities, it might work.
 
Tolni said:
Man. I guess Republic shouldn't be really used if you have 2+ cities. Although, maybe if you have 5 rather close by cities, it might work.
Click to expand...

It depends on the map size, but yes, republic is for small civilizations.

I explained that in my civic re-balance proposal: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=13344044&postcount=37

Afforess said:
Rationale: The tiny civilization civic! Republic represents early republican democratic ideals with direct democracies. Direct democracies don't work well with large populations or over large distances, hence the extreme maintenance costs. However, if your civilization is small, this civic offers very nice rewards for your democratic leadership.
Click to expand...
 
Good thing the expenses preview was added to the civics screen!

This is what a Republic would cost on a huge map, marathon, deity, 20 cities.
Spoiler :
 

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Whilst I'm thinking about it, could we change the grey fluff text to better represent the civics now? More importantly, can we change that charcoal text to a colour with much better contrast? Even light grey would be better on that dark background.
 
Arakhor said:
Whilst I'm thinking about it, could we change the grey fluff text to better represent the civics now? More importantly, can we change that charcoal text to a colour with much better contrast? Even light grey would be better on that dark background.
Click to expand...

+1

BTW. Did you notice that some of the civic categories are written with full capitals, but others not? :)
 
Arakhor said:
More importantly, can we change that charcoal text to a colour with much better contrast? Even light grey would be better on that dark background.
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Changed to light gray in rev795. I don't get what other change you were proposing.
 
The light grey is much better. Thank you!

While I'm at it, Monarchy, Vassalage and Feudal contain spelling errors in their grey text - 'predestined' and 'feudalism' are the correct spellings of the two misspelt words. As another thing, in the new foreign policy civics, I think 'Imperium' should be 'Imperialism', to fit in better with the other types.
 
Arakhor said:
The light grey is much better. Thank you!

While I'm at it, Monarchy, Vassalage and Feudal contain spelling errors in their grey text - 'predestined' and 'feudalism' are the correct spellings of the two misspelt words. As another thing, in the new foreign policy civics, I think 'Imperium' should be 'Imperialism', to fit in better with the other types.
Click to expand...

Imperium is NOT the same as Imperalism. Go google Imperium.
 
Well, regressive imperialism (the exploitation of lesser peoples) would fit the bonuses of the Imperium civic, even though I can see that there is a difference between the two concepts.
 
I finally updated my SVN to the latest version (I was still on 789 where I uploaded Asatru and Shinto) and I started looking at the foreign policy civics. I really like the ideas, but I have a question about Imperium. I get what it's trying to do (seize tribute from weaker civilizations), but the placement at Feudalism seems a bit late. Wouldn't Vassalage or Aristocracy be better? This definitely feels to me like something that should be available in the Classical Era, not the Medieval.
 
Vokarya said:
I finally updated my SVN to the latest version (I was still on 789 where I uploaded Asatru and Shinto) and I started looking at the foreign policy civics. I really like the ideas, but I have a question about Imperium. I get what it's trying to do (seize tribute from weaker civilizations), but the placement at Feudalism seems a bit late. Wouldn't Vassalage or Aristocracy be better? This definitely feels to me like something that should be available in the Classical Era, not the Medieval.
Click to expand...

Moving it to an earlier era does not make it a better civic, in fact, it makes it worse. In the early game, there is little to connectedness income, so Imperium makes no sense. Only at the Medieval times does there start to be enough infrastructure to make seizing connectedness profitable.
 
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