Austria and diplomatic marriage

Just a quick question really on when people use diplomatic marriage. Personally, when the city states are close to me, or within my sphere of influence, i dont use it at all. Preferring instead to reap the benefits of those various city states. The only downside I can see to this tactic is you dont get the science benefit (of puppeting) unless unlocked via patronage (which mitigates/removes the downside, but only if you go down the patronage line. But in my view this is outweighed by the other benefit they provide to you: whether in the form of growth, culture, happiness, faith, military etc.

In fact, the only time I can see that it is tactically advantageous to marry the city state to your empire is if it is sandwiched between you and a neighbour and your influence to's and fro's between the 2 of you, and you really need their resources, so in the long run its cheaper to just buy them out. It is also useful if you want to start a war on another continent and you want a base of operations. It is also useful if there is a land mass that is only populated by city states, and you buy out all of them as their benefit only goes to the AI anyway, so better to just puppet (assuming you have sufficient happiness) and remove their bonus.

The reason i ask is that the purchasing of city states is obviously a scripted tactic of the AI regardless. But I question whether this is strategically advantageous. Sure, it gives them a huge score, but does it really help them as much as befriending them and garnering their bonus instead.

Moderator Action: Moved to G&K.

sherbz said:

Just a quick question really on when people use diplomatic marriage. Personally, when the city states are close to me, or within my sphere of influence, i dont use it at all. Preferring instead to reap the benefits of those various city states. The only downside I can see to this tactic is you dont get the science benefit (of puppeting) unless unlocked via patronage (which mitigates/removes the downside, but only if you go down the patronage line. But in my view this is outweighed by the other benefit they provide to you: whether in the form of growth, culture, happiness, faith, military etc.

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From recollection there's no science bonus from puppets in G&K. But marrying the city can be used to annex it, and from recollection there's no resistance period and so no reason not to. You then get the full bonus from population that you would from any city.

In fact, the only time I can see that it is tactically advantageous to marry the city state to your empire is if it is sandwiched between you and a neighbour and your influence to's and fro's between the 2 of you, and you really need their resources, so in the long run its cheaper to just buy them out.

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You get the CS's military, which is a very cheap buy for often large numbers of advanced units in the late game. You can also use marriage for very early expansion, much like Attila but without the puppet period or population reduction. It is of course going to depend a lot on whether you would actually want the city in the first place given its territory, resource access, placement etc.

The reason i ask is that the purchasing of city states is obviously a scripted tactic of the AI regardless. But I question whether this is strategically advantageous. Sure, it gives them a huge score, but does it really help them as much as befriending them and garnering their bonus instead.

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The AI seems to vary a lot in its use of it - in one game Maria Theresa had a fortune and long-term alliances with many CSes, but only annexed a couple, as well as using her spies to control the rest. On the other hand in a duel map game I played against her she'd got a long way ahead in culture by starting near to two cultural CSes, but by the time I met her she'd annexed both and my culture production caught up as a result (helped by my own cultural CS).

Annexation is extremely useful and of course it is strategically advantageous. You get the benefits of a city that is placed in an extremely good spot (city-states always start next to a few good resources) without an unhappiness penalty or building destruction penalty that you receive through conquest.

There's a reason annexation is overpowered, because the gold cost doesn't reflect the advantage that you receive through annexation.

the only reason to puppet is if you want to build a national wonder
not for resistance or for more unhappiness, those factors dont exist. since it is a marriage...

Only reason to puppet a married City State is to avoid SP and National Wonder costs rising. I'll usually let it puppet long enough to build a monument and then annex.