World History Mod development thread

Sorry guys, I was a little slow on the update

@Shqype+everyone: I have luckily made some huge bugfixing progress and I can choose a leader (3 so far... Ram/Egypt, Gilg/Sumer, Sargon/Akkad). It is now acting weirdly and crashing during map loading. It crashed really fast after it displays a couple errors, so Ill have to do a screenshot so I can see what's going on. I'll update the problem tommorow.

@Dubhgaill: I think you have a very fair point. I have myself studied a lot of Celtic culture. The only problem I have with your request is that... aren't the Gaelic Scots an extension of Celts/Druidry? In fact, the following description "They also stretched from turkey (Gallatians) to Greece (Keltoi) to France and Spain (Gauls) and into Ireland, Man, and Scotland (Gaels)" is exactly the extent of the grouped Celtic Empire... shouldn't it just be the Celtic Empire? Let me know your views on this... is it really neccessary?

ps. the Celtic Empire in my mod is going to be amazing... I really have learned a lot about them and I think I have some good ideas for them. Druids for example are going to be very versatile and fun units.

Kevin
 
What about the Gaels? They are different than the Picts (although the Scots are Gaelic) and they were a major influence on early Europe (bringing down Rome, saving Christianity during the Dark ages, the invention of Pants...). They also stretched from turkey (Gallatians) to Greece (Keltoi) to France and Spain (Gauls) and into Ireland, Man, and Scotland (Gaels). I'd say they should be included (although I am biased, being one myself). If you do decide to include the Celtic/Gaelic civilization I would gladly help with any translations into Irish you would need.

How do you go from bringing down Rome to "saving Christianity during the Dark Ages?"
 
Just cuz they defeated Rome a very large number of times doesn't mean they brought them down. They did stop their expansion though, once Rome invaded Britain.

And I don't know how they saved Christianity, they were pretty much the first to convert, but how did they save it?

(What I suggested earlier still stands, let me know what you think; I will of course have a very comprehensive Celtic civilization, and I'd love to use your translating when I get to that point, it would just be a few lines of diplomacy text, I'll send you a pm when I get that far)

@Shqype and everyone:

I have fixed Gameinfos/DiplomacyInfo.xml (or something like that), which was causing multiple xml errors on the loading screen. I still have to add some more to it, but I suspect it is not the biggest problem.

Do you know any ways of backtracking etc. to find what may be causing the loading screen crash?

Kevin
 
Here is my artwork for the Druid UU:




And for anyone with coding knowledge, I am trying to make it so borders won't go over ocean.

I am trying to say "if the plot type is not ocean then let it have culture."

Here is the original 2 lines of code:

if (pLoopPlot->isPotentialCityWorkForArea(area()))
{
pLoopPlot->changeCulture(ePlayer, (((eCultureLevel - iCultureRange) * iFreeCultureRate) + iCultureRate + 1), (bUpdate || !(pLoopPlot->isOwned())));
}

Here is what I put:

if (false)(pLoopPlot->PlotTypeOceanForArea(area()))
{
pLoopPlot->changeCulture(ePlayer, (((eCultureLevel - iCultureRange) * iFreeCultureRate) + iCultureRate + 1), (bUpdate || !(pLoopPlot->isOwned())));
}

Can someone check this? I highly doubt it's right, I don't know the language, it's a mere guess.

As for the crash, I'm still working on fixing it.

Kevin
 
First off, I'm not sure that code will do what you want it, but I do know that the proper way to say "not" is with an exclamation mark.

So, you'd instead need to write:
Code:
if (!(pLoopPlot->PlotTypeOceanForArea(area())))
{
pLoopPlot->changeCulture(ePlayer, (((eCultureLevel - iCultureRange) * iFreeCultureRate) + iCultureRate + 1), (bUpdate || !(pLoopPlot->isOwned())));
}

Secondly, somebody (I think it was Gaius Octavius) did a borders over ocean mod, where he stated it was a simple fix by editing 1 line (I think). Check it out to see what he did, and just do the opposite ;)
 
As per RogerBacon's post in his thread:

Code:
void CvCity::doPlotCulture(bool bUpdate)
{
	CvPlot* pLoopPlot;
	int iDX, iDY;
	int iCultureRange;

	CyCity* pyCity = new CyCity(this);
	CyArgsList argsList;
	argsList.add(gDLL->getPythonIFace()->makePythonObject(pyCity));	// pass in city class
	argsList.add(bUpdate);
	long lResult=0;
	gDLL->getPythonIFace()->callFunction(PYGameModule, "doPlotCulture", argsList.makeFunctionArgs(), &lResult);
	delete pyCity;	// python fxn must not hold on to this pointer 
	if (lResult == 1)
	{
		return;
	}

	if (getCulture(getOwnerINLINE()) > 0)
	{
		if (getCultureLevel() != NO_CULTURELEVEL)
		{
			for (iDX = -getCultureLevel(); iDX <= getCultureLevel(); iDX++)
			{
				for (iDY = -getCultureLevel(); iDY <= getCultureLevel(); iDY++)
				{
					iCultureRange = cultureDistance(iDX, iDY);

					if (iCultureRange <= getCultureLevel())
					{
						pLoopPlot = plotXY(getX_INLINE(), getY_INLINE(), iDX, iDY);

						if (pLoopPlot != NULL)
						{
							[b]if (true)//pLoopPlot->isPotentialCityWorkForArea(area())) // Borders over Water -RogerBacon[/b]
							{
								pLoopPlot->changeCulture(getOwnerINLINE(), (((getCultureLevel() - iCultureRange) * 20) + getCommerceRate(COMMERCE_CULTURE) + 1), (bUpdate || !(pLoopPlot->isOwned())));
							}
						}
					}
				}
			}
		}
	}
}

Please note that this is prior to BTS, so things most likely have changed. But, you'll want to reactivate the portion that he commented out. I bolded the line for you.
 
Thank you for your advice :) especially with the code I suggested... I have a feeling I will need to do my own code

The problem with RogerBacon's suggestion is... there's nothing to change in any of the sdks... they're already what he told me to change it to, exactly. It's so weird that I wonder if I misunderstood his mod and it's actually supposed to make borders not go over water (which would be what I want), but every piece of information seems to say that this never existed (except civilicious's screenshot)...

I'll check out Gaius's thread (edit: doesn't exist, might have meant civilicious), and try our bit of code, as well as revert the code to what is in RogerBacon's mod, just in case there was a misunderstanding.

I'll update within a few hours

Kevin

EDIT: it seems that everything but that unpatched civ4 one is permanently changed to go over water. According to rogerbacon, you, and just understanding the code, borders should NOT be over water in our games right now. It must have been "fixed" somewhere else in the SDK.

If anyone knows the answer to this mystery I would be ever-so-grateful (and you will be mercilessly thanked when the mod comes out)... I have extreme doubts that it will ever again exist =/

and thanks for your help so far Shqype
 
Going back to the luxury resource issue, I'm not sure what (if any) function the resource catagories have on gameplay, I'm guessing thats just for the convenience of the player and to make the civolopaedia sections rational.

I do have a thought about how we could reassign the catagories though. We could seperate the resources based on transportation needs. So we could have as one catagory 'Bulk Goods' ie. the heavy non-perishable stuff that requires a large ship to transport over-seas (I would include some food-stuffs in this group such as Wheat and Potatos). Another catagory would be 'Low weight, High value goods' (gold, gems, perhaps tin as well) items that don't require specially build cargo ships to transport them. The third group would be the 'Perishables', food stuffs that require refridgeration or another method of preservation to transport long distances.

If the categories have any gameplay value we could hijack it and apply it along these lines to restrict trade/transportation in the goods of each catagory to a tech (Perishables require Refridgeration) or maybe even a city improvement (Bulk Goods require a Harbour as an overseas conection point).

Complex stuff I know, but if it can be done it would best reflect the realities of resource trade IMHO :D

(Also what properties will the Druid have? Liking the model :))
 
@EvilTheMonkey: I doubt there's a need to put them into distinct categories which the game resources, but instead I'd really like to add those ideas in directly. For example cattle would gain 1 food and maybe 1 gold once the techs refridgeration and mass transportation (highways) are researched. Doing this on an individual basis will give more control.

I also would like to require better ships to trade resources cross-seas with other civilizations. How I'm gonna code that I just don't know yet :) I'm a quite inexperienced person with a god of a mod/ideas to make. But this one too does have a small problem: in the ancient days, civs found ways to both overland and to a lesser extent overseas transport bulky resources to other civs. I'm fairly certain there was a wheat import/export, for example. And, without resource quantitization, increasing the amount of imports/exports of a certain resource is impossible. Therefore, hopefully my goals to quantitize resources (or borrow someone else's successful attempts at quantitizing resources) will be successful.

Let me know what you think of my comments

~~~

If anyone is still wondering what each terrain looks like, and/or what their stats are, it may be seen on the first page under terrains. Volcanoes will be added in next update, in both threads (this one and map).

As for progress, I am taking out any risky references in the SDK; hopefully we can get a working start to the mod, minus non-borders-over-water, this Canadian march break.

Finally, I have tentatively added a nice bassoon song to the main menu of the mod- it's fairly appropriate for waiting, ie during loading screen. If anyone has some nice cultural music that they would suggest, I would definitely appreciate it, and probably use it.

Oh yeah, one more thing, @EvilTheMonkey, I'm still unsure. Do you know a lot about the druids? I am very open to ideas on how to functionalize them. For now they are bound to be a new, more frequent great person unique to the Celts, combining Great Engineer, Great Prophet, Great Scientist, along with a few other small functions. They really did so much for the Celtic civ and so much to bring them together, I really need a way to encompass it all.

Kevin
 
I've had little use of it so far (I'm fairly sound with my history up to medieval times), but it's the Oxford version. One of the two good history atlases.

Mostly I'll be using it to refresh my modern history, and the timeline is certainly helpful when it comes to event modding.
 
I was thinking...

How about making several different types of Mountains?

such as:

  • Peaks
  • Mountain (smaller mountains such as the Appalaichan mountain range? or even smaller?)
  • Volcano
  • Mountain Range

For the Mountain Range, i was thinking:

For graphics, you could make a tile with several small mountains togather.
and it'll have mountain valleys and stuff for Agriculture or even city building. (with a pop limit?)

Also there's suppose to be an update for the World Map today... Is there gonna be one?
 
I think the smaller peaks have most merit (though I would want to be able to build a city on it, and have it still like nice), and although I'd consider the mountain range, I really don't know how I could implement several peaks, agricultural land and a potential city into the graphics. I'll play around with it sometime.

I have been playing my new instrument, and there are just so many pics i have to upload. But enough excuses! The update will be featured on the map page within a few minutes.

~~~

In conjunction with the volcanoes part of the update, although I don't have a list of volcanoes/locations, I will tell you that I included all the decade volcanoes, and a volcano wherever there is a set of active volcanoes. This would include places like Iceland, Aleuts, Chile, etc.

For the effect of the volcanoes, please see the person's mod (though it is all my art as of now). Supervolcanoes will soon be added into the python file. Volcanoes destroy nearby improvements, lower health of units, and will probably reduce the population of an adjacent city. Supervolcanoes will destroy nearby imrpovements (farther away), kill nearby units and damage further ones, and destroy adjacent cities while reducing the population of farther cities.

Kevin
 
I know I may well be asking a question that's way, way down the design road, since you're still making the map, but I have a query about Civilizations: regarding flags, do you intend to use decals, or historical flags?

Personally I'd like to put forward now that I think decals are the best options for clarity and visual quality. Civ4 screws up complex flags. It would also avoid issues of nations that had no flag or disputed flags.

Just a thought.
 
I know I may well be asking a question that's way, way down the design road, since you're still making the map, but I have a query about Civilizations: regarding flags, do you intend to use decals, or historical flags?

Personally I'd like to put forward now that I think decals are the best options for clarity and visual quality. Civ4 screws up complex flags. It would also avoid issues of nations that had no flag or disputed flags.

Just a thought.

I don't think decals are the way to go. With all the civs that will be in this mod, you'll run out of distinctly different colors, which would define the decal flags. Plus, if flags will change historically (maybe with eras or events), it will be even harder to keep track of.

Static flags look fine when done correctly.
 
I don't think decals are the way to go. With all the civs that will be in this mod, you'll run out of distinctly different colors, which would define the decal flags. Plus, if flags will change historically (maybe with eras or events), it will be even harder to keep track of.

Static flags look fine when done correctly.

Totally agree!! Historical flag would look way better than decal:goodjob:
 
I don't think decals are the way to go. With all the civs that will be in this mod, you'll run out of distinctly different colors, which would define the decal flags. Plus, if flags will change historically (maybe with eras or events), it will be even harder to keep track of.

Static flags look fine when done correctly.
Actually if distinctive colours are going to be a problem, then I'd be more worried about borders than flags, since decal flags at least give you two colours to work with. Given that, I wouldn't think it would be wise for Civ colours to change when flags do, so it would be possible to keep track based on colour combinations. If there are just 20 colours to choose from, there will be enough potential combinations to make far, far more than enough unique-coloured flags for each nation.

I know static flags can look pretty good, but they are exceptionally hard to pull off, and the best results are generally flags that feature large amounts of flat colour, such as tricolours, and with no emblem or one right in the centre.

Other good reasons for avoiding historical flags include:
- Some flags are too similar, especially in the modern era. Ignoring rare cases like Chad and Romania, there are many flags which are very similar apart from the order of the colours used. To make it clearer, one of them has to change.
- Up until very recently, most countries outside of Europe just plain didn't use flags at all, let alone national flags. Revisionist flag-making for dead cultures kinda distracts from the point of this mod.
- Afghanistan. Enough said.
- Some flags are exceptionally distracting. I have played with a real American flag featured. It's like a corner of my screen turned into a five-year-old screaming for endless attention.
- Even though this is a world history mod, the realities of gameplay means that borders, colonial empires and international standing will not be the same as in real life. Why would, for example, Commonwealth countries feature the Union Jack in their canton if, in game, the British Empire is limited to the British Isles and part of Iceland?
- Everyone keeps turning flags on their sides so the work as hanging banners. It looks awful!
 
Actually if distinctive colours are going to be a problem, then I'd be more worried about borders than flags, since decal flags at least give you two colours to work with. Given that, I wouldn't think it would be wise for Civ colours to change when flags do, so it would be possible to keep track based on colour combinations. If there are just 20 colours to choose from, there will be enough potential combinations to make far, far more than enough unique-coloured flags for each nation.

I know static flags can look pretty good, but they are exceptionally hard to pull off, and the best results are generally flags that feature large amounts of flat colour, such as tricolours, and with no emblem or one right in the centre.

Other good reasons for avoiding historical flags include:
- Some flags are too similar, especially in the modern era. Ignoring rare cases like Chad and Romania, there are many flags which are very similar apart from the order of the colours used. To make it clearer, one of them has to change.
- Up until very recently, most countries outside of Europe just plain didn't use flags at all, let alone national flags. Revisionist flag-making for dead cultures kinda distracts from the point of this mod.
- Afghanistan. Enough said.
- Some flags are exceptionally distracting. I have played with a real American flag featured. It's like a corner of my screen turned into a five-year-old screaming for endless attention.
- Even though this is a world history mod, the realities of gameplay means that borders, colonial empires and international standing will not be the same as in real life. Why would, for example, Commonwealth countries feature the Union Jack in their canton if, in game, the British Empire is limited to the British Isles and part of Iceland?
- Everyone keeps turning flags on their sides so the work as hanging banners. It looks awful!

I still think for an historical mod like this, historical flag are the way to go. ;)
 
omg. good luck. :eek:

Though, two things... Don't name Denmark Jutes, and don't name the Etruscans Etruscan Empire.

Or at least don't due to my opinion. :)
 
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