SGOTM 12 - One Short Straw

I don't know what the EP situation is :blush: I was going to just focus it on Roosevelt + Gandhi since I doubt we'll get city visibility with Stalin.

It has been suggested that we send two spies to Stalin to invoke a city revolt on the turn we attack him to remove the city defenses. For that, we'll need some EPP on him. We are generating enough EPP/turn from buildings and the few spies we're running that we will have city visibility on Stalin in a few turns...
 
I just checked the save and we have vilibility of all but two of Roosevelt's cities. We can see all of Gandhi's and shouldn't have to invest any more on him to maintain that. It will take us 3 turns to see all of Stalin's cities if we direct all epp toward him.

So within 5 turns or so, we should have visibility into all cities of all three of them if we direct our epp appropriately.
 
I agree with putting our EP's on Stalin, we don't exactly have a better use for them elsewhere.
 
I agree with putting our EP's on Stalin, we don't exactly have a better use for them elsewhere.

Welcome back, mdy!!! I agree with this to a point. Within 5 to 10 turns of directing 100% of our epp on Stalin, we'll have way more than we need. Although, I'm not sure how many epp it costs to cause a city revolt... checking test game...

OK, for a city revolt it's 650 (base) * 1.27 (Distance factor for Stalingrad) * 0.8 (trade routes with Stalin) * .56 (current :espionage: differential w/Stalin) = 370 :espionage:

So, within 5 to 6 turns at 100% (currently +385 :espionage:/turn and we already have 618 :espionage: on him), we will have more EPP on Stalin that we'll ever need. At this point we can split them between Stalin, Roosevelt and Gandhi. Maybe a higher weight on Roosevelt makes sense if we decide to use spies in our war with him.
 
Ok, I took everybody's input and played 2 turns. Plastics is in, radio is slated for 2 turns. Our bpt at a small positive is 4187 bpt (a slight increase from last turn). It looks like our growing cities is still providing a net positive growth even though we picked up a few unhappy dudes.

I've posted the save and queued up all of the builds that I had in my previous PPP. Let me know what everybody thinks. If it looks all good, I can play another 2 turns tomorrow night (through radio) and we can re-assess the impact of building those two wonders. I think the only change I need to make to the PPP is to add a few more mining executives in the old English cities... Can't decide which one though.
 
Oh and . I sold physics (1 turns left for him). He's now on steel for 4 turns. I'm thinking he may actually be going for artillery. Now if only he could finish the stupid tech before we get to it! Do we want to consider selling (gifting) steel to him in hopes that he immediately goes on to artillery? It will probably be a 6 turn research for him, which would coincide with when we complete radio--computers--superconductors + 1 turn of lab building (possibly 0% slider?). Of course it's a gamble as to what that fool will actually research.
 
I think we should sell/gift America steel. Rosservelt having another tech won't cause us any significant problems given our tech lead over him.
 
I'd give to him now. If he's going for Arty, he'll get there regardless.
New city should build CH before Granary, I think.
You could have Canterbury on execs @ 1 per turn.
GP Farm doesn't really need a Market. IA and Market were queued before we knew we'd be running Artists there.
We have 29 unhappy, mostly in major cities. We are currently getting 230 bpt from 10% science. Should we consider 10% culture now?
Edit: fire spies and eng in secondary cities. Hire spies in Beijing.
 
Ah, I totally forgot to check for new specialists etc. Ugh, these turns are going to be painful...

Engineers in secondary cities aren't bad depending on the multipliers. I tried to take the buildings into consideration when choosing what to hire. Plus, we do need more wealth.

What are the spies in Beijing for? Back-up?
 
Beijing has a Scotland Yard so those spies contribute a lot of ep (not sure we need them but those spies contribute a large % of the ep we are generating) And yes Beijing is/has been a backup Gspy/Priest
 
I think we push Radio off to 3 turns there are just too many good builds we need to do to push to get it to 2 turns.

10% culture is worth it I think (or is close enough science wise that the extra hammers etc that the happy citizens could produce would make up for it)

Bcool and Crabbes need coal plants --easily pays off
Canterbury factory or executives
Beijing a theater
London could run 1 more priest
Hasting theater (those levee tiles are not being worked :( )
Shanghai a barracks

That was just a initial look. The sacrifice for 2 turn radio is just too great in my opinion. We will have unhappy citizens in cities even after R&R and eiffel tower and 10% culture. Those extra citizens easily pay off I think. So the barracks/theater builds should be built in those cities with 3 or 4 unhappy w/o cultural slider and that can still easily grow.

Also factories are another very good build especially on the mainland. Coal plants in island cities will easily pay off.
Hammer city needs an observatory too (since we definitely want a research institute there)

and of course marines in Moscow and workers in a few more cities.

The happiness will get worse since we will have a war with Stalin too at the very least.
 
I think we push Radio off to 3 turns there are just too many good builds we need to do to push to get it to 2 turns....

I totally get your argument. The only way this makes sense is if the builds you're suggesting result in shaving a turn (or more) off research later in the tech tree. If we give up this turn now and never get it back, I'm not sure it makes sense...

I agree that we should gift Roosevelt Steel and pray that he goes Artillery next. That will shave 1.5 to 2 turns off research right there.
 
It's not like we're going a tech per turn, so I don't think it matters how fast we get to Radio. Plastics was a rush specifically for the dam. Right now we need to set ourselves up for the final push. To me that means essentials like Mining/Sushi, Factory+(Power), Observatories in RI cities, CH/Lib everywhere, need to be done in circa 5-6t from now. Around that time, we'll have to start cutting builds for wealth, except for RIs, as there won't be enough time for payoff.

I guess I'm ok with theaters in Moscow and Beijing, though I'd personally skip Moscow - it doesn't really need to grow further and only has 1 :mad:.
Edit: btw, I don't expect much WW from Stalin. We should take care of him in 2-3t tops - no time for WW to accumulate.

BTW, if Roos did go Arty, it's very good thing. We can always invest beakers in Fission or something while he completes.
 
I just took a quick look at the save and here are my observations:

In general, if a city is at or beyond its happy cap, it should work hammers, merchants or scientists instead of farms, pastures, coast, etc. Kamchatka and Bcool Island are examples of where I'd change citizens.

I see that you've ferried some workers to a fallout island. Great. There are a lot more islands that we need to get workers on soon. I assume all of the workers on Bcool's island are headed off to scrub other islands now. It would be good if we could scrub two of the tiles on Los Angeles island before LA's borders pop.

When running a high science slider, it's slightly more efficient to work the gold in Moscow and hire another merchant in Fish....

Calcutta is starving but there is a fish tile that could be worked.

Taking Stalingrad is going to be very easy. I think if we have 10 marines, we should be able to take the city and move the boats into the city that same turn to help defend it. Of course, things could change if Stalin moves some of those grenadiers into the city. His other cities will fall very quickly. There are only 5 fallout tiles on his islands, so we could do this after launch but we'll need to start the logistics of getting our marines into place before launch.

Which cities are you planning to generate the next great people and which type do you plan to get from each?

Hammer City (and later Siberia) could convert some farms/plantations to workshops, which may shave a turn off of a critical build.

The most challenging thing at this point is going to be optimizing research, planning our space ship builds and cleaning up Roosevelt's fallout.
 
I totally get your argument. The only way this makes sense is if the builds you're suggesting result in shaving a turn (or more) off research later in the tech tree. If we give up this turn now and never get it back, I'm not sure it makes sense...

The difference between just barely getting radio in 2 turns and getting it in 3 turns is not 1 complete turn of research because there is OF.
All of the builds I suggested pay off in less than ~5 turns. They will pay for themselves easily before the end.

And we need to take out Stalin. We can't delay Marine builds forever.
 
I think it's better to push on towards Radio in two. It will give us the two modern wonders which provides happiness across our entire empire. Also, it puts us closer to superconductors (which is a tech worth rushing to I think). I'll acquiesce if I'm in the minority on this point though...

Also, one citizen = 1 scientist = 9 beakers (with 50% multipliers). By comparison, a turn of wealth production depends on the city but is probably around 50 hammers for most of our mid-tier cities. So the :) building will break even quick enough, I think.
 
Hmm, ok. On further thought, I'm ok with the 3 turn radio plan while pushing in any buildings that will break even in 5-7 turns. I don't think we need to start marine production yet. I'd like to hold off on marines until after the dam is in, as we'll have a bit more hammer flexibility then. I'll post a revised PPP tonight through superconductors (radio -- computers -- superconductors).

I have the GPP plan at home but here it is:
T-1, Pigs GS (we got)
T+5, London 64%GP, 14%GE, 12%GSpy (or something like that), 5%GA/GM
T+6, Fish >94% GM
T+10, Bahamas 62%GSpy, 14%GP, 13%GE, 11%GA (ugh)
T+12, GP Farm -- GA.
Rheims is a back-up, as is Bermuda and Beijing. As long as London and Bahamas don't both pop a GE though, we should be fine on getting the fifth golden age (using the fusion engineer if necessary).
 
If we don't want an engineer in both London and Bahamas to generate a GE perhaps we should fire one of the engineers and replace it with a prophet. We might also run scientists instead of enginners in both these cities as if we have a surplus GP we can't use for a golden age a GS would be more useful for bulbing than a GE.

The 3T radio plan looks good to me.
 
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