shattergod
Chieftain
- Joined
- May 4, 2008
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- 69
The entire play style demands it. History demands it. *I* demands it. Either he gets a bonus spy or gets a 20% bonus to stealing techs. Accept nothing less.
Attila the Hun needs a bonus spy.
- Thread starter shattergod
- Start date
Vidszhite
Ya Girl Juniper & Friends
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- Jun 21, 2012
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- 370
I'm curious as well. Huns are one of my favorite civs, but they already start with a free tech and get +1 production from Pastures, so does Attila really need an extra spy? That kind of encroaches on England's UA.
Pythakoreas
Chef Tain
The Chinese need a bonus spy, in the Art of War there's a great emphasis on the use of spies. The Koreans need a spy bonus, North Korea has some impressive cyber-war technologies if you look at their poverty. The Americans need a spy bonus, the Russians, the Romans, the Greeks, the French, the Persians...
Just give everyone an extra spy unit dammit!
Just give everyone an extra spy unit dammit!
Pythakoreas
Chef Tain
But seriously the civ deserving an extra spy really is China, given their Unique Ability named "Art of War", an obvious reference to Sun Tzu's A-to-Z of warfare.
That James Bond reference was totally unexpected.
That James Bond reference was totally unexpected.
shattergod
Chieftain
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Atilla's built to tech tall, not wide... and spies are of the absolute most use when players tech tall. Further, Attila's use of spies... which was kind of unusual for a barbarian at the time... was widely known and had a significant impact on his successes.
It might work better to give him a bonus to stealing tech while depriving him of the ability to use diplomats.
It might work better to give him a bonus to stealing tech while depriving him of the ability to use diplomats.
But seriously the civ deserving an extra spy really is China, given their Unique Ability named "Art of War", an obvious reference to Sun Tzu's A-to-Z of warfare.
That James Bond reference was totally unexpected.
England's extra spy should always be named James or Bond, imo.
Pythakoreas
Chef Tain
Vidszhite
Ya Girl Juniper & Friends
- Joined
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- 370
Nooooooooo. Diplomats are surprisingly important for warmongering. Besides, that's basically already an Autocracy tenet.
How is Attila meant to go tall? He is meant to rampage across the continent taking what he pleases. Once Horse Archers get obsolete he's left as a generic do anything civ (hopefully you've wiped out 3-5 enemy civs by that point)!
What I'd like to see is an unholy marriage of Huns, Mongols and Germans to create the Horse Archer -> Keshik -> Panzer tech path.
TheMarshmallowBear
Benelovent Chieftain of the Ursu Kingdom
How about we give EACH civ a bonus spy...... :| xD
headcase
Limit 1 Facepalm Per Turn
Well, you could probably remove England's spy bonus in favour of allowing more distant naval trade routes, but the Huns don't really need yet another UA to clutter things up as they already have three (not counting the amazing city naming ability of course).
That said, I'm afraid of Attila and so would give into his demands, but I'm not part of Firaxis so it won't help.
That said, I'm afraid of Attila and so would give into his demands, but I'm not part of Firaxis so it won't help.
ehecatzin
Emperor
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- Jun 29, 2007
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- 1,498
The Aztecs used merchants as spies, obviusly they should have the +1 spy.
As for the Huns, Germany is getting reworked, IMHO, the barbarian conversion fits Atilla much more flavour wise. I'd rather like to see them have that and loose the starting tech.
As for the Huns, Germany is getting reworked, IMHO, the barbarian conversion fits Atilla much more flavour wise. I'd rather like to see them have that and loose the starting tech.
shattergod
Chieftain
- Joined
- May 4, 2008
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- 69
*technology* tall. Take a look at the tech tree. Notice how the militaristic techs get you to ren faster than about any other pathway?
Going the military path puts you in a perfect position to rip off everyone else's techs once you get there.... whether it's via trade (which surprise surprise, attila also has a leg up on), or via spies.
Gunpowder takes thirteen techs to make Renaissance. Acoustics takes 15, Astronomy takes 18.
Its 3003 science to go from agriculture to gunpowder, 3566 for Astronomy. That's a massive discrepancy. Further, keep in mind that via trading the Gunpowder civ will actually be accumulating science *faster* because he'll know fewer techs overall.... and the higher up he goes the better off he is. This continues right up until fertilizes, putting you in the Industrial era at 15 techs. Every other branch is double that or more.
Note: I just tried it. As in doing exactly what I just said. Standard map, prince difficulty. I avoided any kind of friendships or expansion (eventually I had a massive army because I just couldn't produce anything else) and started murdering.
I was well into the industrial age by the 1600s. I never even so much as built a library.
Socratatus
Emperor
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- Jul 26, 2007
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Yea, I know why England has an extra spy (if you read the Elizabethan history), but, seriously, CHINA should also have an extra spy, maybe TWO extra spies. China was all about spies 1000 years before England even started thinking about them!
A bit of a bad deal for China there.
A bit of a bad deal for China there.
Tiggurix
Warlord
Having actually read the Art of War, I can attest to this. However, I honestly think their UA is strong enough as is, and their Libraries actually give you money instead of demanding any upkeep, so I think they're strong enough on the tech side of things.
Syailendra
Prince
Arachnofiend
Perturbed Pugilist
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2012
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America should get an extra spy. Rename the Freedom spy tenant "Containment" and you've got yourself a perfectly viable (though pathetically weak) American UA.
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