Pot of Scalding Oil

Wow! you filled the gap. The many years and thousands of units completed make it seem strange this famous Medevil weapon featured in countless movies and shows was ever left out this long .
ALmost like it was decidedly thought to hard for those to even try an attempt.

SO here we have it. Your rank has gone up good sir and Civ3 has become a lil more complete because of you . :beer:
Now people from around the world will think of you when they fill in more realism with their mods that now have concentration on counterseige development, forcing greater importance of towns protectiive walls for strengthening frontline defence units whoes job it is to dispense the oil on atackers (whew!!)

( maint cost for machine and its operaters may be costly but think of the damage done to a invading seige team when 6 oil defenders are held up in the town protected by 6 pikeman . It means the attacker faces colateral damage(if flagged like it should be) before he even attacks the pikemen. Image the losses when this has to be repeated 6 times to clear out the city )

AI will take advantage of all this in some occasions. SO thats why I mentione it. Mix in some walls, big city sizes and an wonder on high terrain. Youve just made made AI hella lot stronger in holdin its towns cu they repeatly get doused with oil on every failed attack that streches on more then one turn
Now even a outdated AI unit is powerful cuz when its attacked the opertunity to drop the oil comes into play. Take a whole bunch of the old units holed up with a stash of oil units and its absolute carnage for your seige op, especiall if they get to reload the next turn!


This is a big deveoplment when you think how far down the line the refining has come for reaserching defencive posture improvement. (I call this best stride in develpment this month, at the very least):king:

Before this new branch in research was non existant except for turrents that unfortunatly came to late for any AI keep its position by benifiting from a stonger defencive stance, but now a smooth flow of science in counter seige weaponary can stem destruction from evolving seige engines. (BY USING A BALLISTA in unison with OIL to shoot CATS n TREBS) Now its possable some civs will become couter seige speciallists (before other can catch up) This is grounbreaking!
Again, youve widen the strat spectrum today. The sport has improved at this monent because of you. :smoke:
My heart felt congrats on your acheivments and to others who's mods wil go on to succesfully orcastrate this new develpment line of weapons and enhace difficulty without chessyness of upper levels.
 
would you like your human regular or extra crispy?

This is pretty sweet. Mind if i use it in a mod?

-nate
 
TA Jones, You've just got me thinking about adding a seventh main unit line to the FF mod. I already have Offensive infantry, Defensive infantry, Cavalry, Balanced infantry (have equal attack and def values which are the median value between the attack and defense value of the dedicated attackers and defenders, but are cheaper to produce), Armored vehicles and Airships..... I mean I already have the Makou Cannon as such a unit (Well, it's defensive/Ultra long range artiller, but it is still immobile, except if you airlift it), but a whole line of murder holes/defensive turrets would be a smashing idea.... Probably have the Boiling Oil as the ancient age immobile defender, which upgrades to a fixed cannon emplacement in the Middle ages (comes with Alchemy, which also allows Bombard cannons), followed by a bunker or mortar hole in the industrial era and a Defensive Gun or laser turret in the modern era.... I may even make a few turrets myself for this purpose....
 
( maint cost for machine and its operaters may be costly but think of the damage done to a invading seige team when 6 oil defenders are held up in the town protected by 6 pikeman . It means the attacker faces colateral damage(if flagged like it should be) before he even attacks the pikemen. Image the losses when this has to be repeated 6 times to clear out the city )

Ahem... Collateral damage is damage that is done to population and improvements when attacking. In other words, a defensive unit with this flag has no purpose whatsoever... this is not Civ4.

It's a very nice unit but I need a working idea on how to use it ;) Of course it can be integrated into a mod performing a normal defensive function, or defensive bombardment like archers and catapults, though they all have RoF=1 on defense so it's a bit pointless.
 
Ahem... Collateral damage is damage that is done to population and improvements when attacking. In other words, a defensive unit with this flag has no purpose whatsoever... this is not Civ4.

It's a very nice unit but I need a working idea on how to use it ;) Of course it can be integrated into a mod performing a normal defensive function, or defensive bombardment like archers and catapults, though they all have RoF=1 on defense so it's a bit pointless.

Oh yes perhaps I had name mixed up. IM thinken of the attack that takes off more then one life bar sometimes while others it only takes off one.
Its designed to mimck real life I think in that It would depend on how many people were standing under the pot o oil when it spilled down. So can this be done?

Please embyro you made Vassels out of nowhere and it changed the game forever. Infact latly only cuz of meanspirited attacks coming from 4ums, Ive been pustin your work as the cure to previous ailment like crazy over in the in 4ums You should see one Civ3 player has converted to your work, even 2 from 4land pm'ed( so not to be embaressed I guess;) ) requstin help dloadin your mod.

Could you think of another reveloutionary way to make conterseige part of the game like you did vassels :goodjob:

Hikaro Takayama is smart cookie so if hes lookin at the potential then mybe we ar on to some radical improvement. I still say we need castle launched ballista though. :)
 
Well, as was described earlier, giving these units the "Zone of Control" flag will allow them to snipe passing units from time to time (to simulate the oil getting a few guys who got a bit too close to the walls), a HIGH (say twice the value used by the normal offensive siege weapons for that era) bombardment value (but no offensive bombardment flags, except in the cases where it would make sense, say for a fixed Medieval Mortar type emplacement, Heavy turrets, etc), and a fairly high defense (equal or slightly greater than the best defender for that particular era or tech level).

I'm currently working on a Viera Defensive flavor unit line for the World of Ivalice civs, but since that should be finished fairly quickly (all the animations I've already saved as presets in Poser, so all I have to do is finalize the models and render), I'll start looking into this...
 
Well, as was described earlier, giving these units the "Zone of Control" flag will allow them to snipe passing units from time to time (to simulate the oil getting a few guys who got a bit too close to the walls), a HIGH (say twice the value used by the normal offensive siege weapons for that era) bombardment value (but no offensive bombardment flags, except in the cases where it would make sense, say for a fixed Medieval Mortar type emplacement, Heavy turrets, etc), and a fairly high defense (equal or slightly greater than the best defender for that particular era or tech level).

I'm currently working on a Viera Defensive flavor unit line for the World of Ivalice civs, but since that should be finished fairly quickly (all the animations I've already saved as presets in Poser, so all I have to do is finalize the models and render), I'll start looking into this...

Thanks. what bout zone with castle launched balista, do we have one of those? THen damage to those who directly below who attack the city with hot oil baptism udeliverd in multy blows.

CAn extra hits of damage be possable on defence. EX: Like a treb shot that goes off first before you can attack the city where its garrisoned. CAn that shot do more damage then one? Sorry if you guys (embyo)mentioned this already IM half asleep at the moment
 
No, you can only vary the amount of damage with ROF which only works on attack. Defensive bombardment can do a maximum of 1 HP of damage.

You can increase the effect of defensive bombardment by reducing hitpoints. ie: go through your units and add -1 or -2 to most of them. But, this has the side effect of greatly exagerating the importantance of combat experiance and reduces the chance that a fast unit will be able to break off an attack (if hp is 1 the instant combat starts, it can not stop). Where an ELITE of anything becomes a monster unit. Also, if HP is 1, there is no defensive bombardment.
 
Still, If one were to give Ballista towers, Gun turrets, Mortar Holes, Bombard Towers, etc (i.e. any fixed defensive emplacement that launches or shoots something) an OFFENSIVE bombardment, then that helps solve that problem... I already tested this with the Makou Cannon (it has a bombard value of 90, def of 30, blitz and 2 movement, but is flagged immobile and has 0 offense), and as long as the unit is immobile and has 0 OFFENSE value, then it won't move, even if being used for an offensive bombardment.

BTW, how does ROF come into this whole bombardment thing anyways? If I were to set the ROF to 3, would it be possible that instead of just taking 1-2 HP (more often 2) each time my Makou cannon hits, it might be possible to fatally wound the enemy unit with the bombardment? (The Makou Cannon has lethal land and sea bombardment and a range of 30, meaning that it can hit a HUGE area around the city it's located in).
 
No, you can only vary the amount of damage with ROF which only works on attack. Defensive bombardment can do a maximum of 1 HP of damage.

You can increase the effect of defensive bombardment by reducing hitpoints. ie: go through your units and add -1 or -2 to most of them. But, this has the side effect of greatly exagerating the importantance of combat experiance and reduces the chance that a fast unit will be able to break off an attack (if hp is 1 the instant combat starts, it can not stop). Where an ELITE of anything becomes a monster unit. Also, if HP is 1, there is no defensive bombardment.

OK I understand. You give a treb O movement points and no attack, all that machine can do is get in first shot on the attacker. It dosn't get damaged cuz it has no hit points. Therefor, it relies on havin plenty units garrison with him for opertunity to strike

This was my plan for the oil unit, to act like a treb with no attack.
The more units stationed, the more effective it is having oil units, more free shots basicly. (EX: if 2 units are stationed durin a one turn seige and 6 oils are garrisoned then oil is usefull only twice before the troops stationed with it are killed and the rest get captured. Now all 6 oils become despandable spoils of war- or transported if its in harbourcity to another enemys city-or set up as defence against a retakeover)

If walls and other defences came together to protect the units garrisoned with the oil, then the oil would have more chances to reload and chip away at the seige. This is what counter seige is basickly, weakin away the attack .IMPORTANT: Add this with Castle top Ballista thats PIckin em off with Offence attack, inbeeween oil dumpins and you truly start to have a 'well oiled' counterseige system

Heres the big Q can you make a seige unit have a offence attack but not a defensive one? If not this would ruin the idea of Ballist and Oil workin together in counterseige harmoney. The reasonin is WHy build oil units when stackin up on BAllistas can do both Off and Def

These ideas are to improve AI btw. Me personally? Id be to lazy to waste sheild protecting my towns with grinder down tactics being that IM so confident in my offence abilty that I never see me havin to be put on defencive. The AI now thats another story (I play Monarch)
 
No, you can only vary the amount of damage with ROF which only works on attack. Defensive bombardment can do a maximum of 1 HP of damage.

You can increase the effect of defensive bombardment by reducing hitpoints. ie: go through your units and add -1 or -2 to most of them. But, this has the side effect of greatly exagerating the importantance of combat experiance and reduces the chance that a fast unit will be able to break off an attack (if hp is 1 the instant combat starts, it can not stop). Where an ELITE of anything becomes a monster unit. Also, if HP is 1, there is no defensive bombardment.

OK I understand. You give a treb O movement points and no attack. All that machine can do is get in a first shot on an attacker. It dosn';t worry about gettin damaged cuz it has no hit points therefor it relies on havin plenty units garrison with him.(lets say they are needed to shoot the treb at the seigers)

This was my plan for the oil unit. The more units stationed, the more effective it is to have more oil units, more free shots basickly. ( if 2 units are stationed durin a one turn seige and 6 oils are garrisoned then oil is usefull attacks only twice before it gets captured and all 6 become despanded spoils of war- or transported if its in harbourcity to another enemys city-or set up as defence against a retakeover)

If walls and other defences came together to protect the units garrisoned with the oil, then the oil would have more chances to reload and chip away at the seige. This is what counter seige is basickly, weakin away the attack .IMPORTANT: Add this with Castle top Ballista thats PIckin em off with Offence attack, inbeeween oil dumpins and you truly start to have a 'well oiled' counterseige system

Heres the big Q can you make a seige unit have a offence attack but not a defensive one? If not this would ruin the idea of Ballist and Oil workin together in counterseige harmoney. The reasonin is WHy build oil units when stackin up on BAllistas can do both Off and Def

These ideas are to improve AI btw. Me personally? Id be to lazy to waste sheild protecting my towns with grinder down tactics being that IM so confident in my offence abilty that I never see me havin to be put on defencive. The AI now thats another story (I play Monarch)
 
You can not have a unit with only offensive bombardment. For example, canons do not have any defense. They are capable of offensive bombardment. But, they also fire in defensive bombardment.

The work around is to give oil a range of 0. So it can not be used in offensive bombardment. You then give the ballista a lower bombardment, but a range of 1. The computer will basically treat this as a canon, which I suspect was your goal. But, it will use the oil to defend the city first.

I would also suggest that these units have no support cost and no defense. ie: by themselves they are just a build it and forget it thingy. You gotta build dudes to man it. No dudes, and they do nothing.
 
You can not have a unit with only offensive bombardment. For example, canons do not have any defense. They are capable of offensive bombardment. But, they also fire in defensive bombardment.

The work around is to give oil a range of 0. So it can not be used in offensive bombardment. You then give the ballista a lower bombardment, but a range of 1. The computer will basically treat this as a canon, which I suspect was your goal. But, it will use the oil to defend the city first.

I would also suggest that these units have no support cost and no defense. ie: by themselves they are just a build it and forget it thingy. You gotta build dudes to man it. No dudes, and they do nothing.

AH yes you understood my words perfectly. THANKYOU! YA im with you on the no defence or support. Its just equipment, when all get killed these spoils go to the winner.

The ballista are more likly to be reused by player but after capture can the oil be shipped out on a boat (even with 0 movement) THis way it can be disbanded for hefty production bonus a real prize (oil does come inhandy producing things) THis is just a after thought but is it possable?

Infact mybe make it need harbour type requirment so all oils can be transfered to and from port towns. It can spawn from a wonder every so many turns and be cashed in at a city that needs sheilds or get dumped on peoples heads like for military purposes I mean! :cool:

ONly I got this Question Now ? CAn you alter the amount sheilds one gets when they cash in a unit, or is this all default?


Oh G, I dunno. We got room to grow somewhere here and in todays enviroment thats not easily said. It going to take the right minds to impliment this right. I hope someone makes this work good in thier mod I can always try my best working around what they come up with. I dunno how to add units so I hope Hikaro and others finsh theirs soon
 
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