Sandkasten

I'm roughly doing everything the same, except with slightly different worker actions. I do an extra chop with the second worker before it joins the dye/gems action. Getting Mono t52 and running Eng t53. 1 worker turn short for t52 (last chop comes in a turn late).

I think yours must be very close to perfect. I'd be happy to call this one done, until we do some scouting in-game. We'll have to rinse and repeat once we decide on the actual second city spot.
 

Attachments

  • MavTestBBP05_BC1880-Whip.CivBeyondSwordSave
    73.6 KB · Views: 30
  • MavTestBBP05_BC2080-Oracle.CivBeyondSwordSave
    67 KB · Views: 28
I've been able to hit T-53 using a few different systems, but I just can't seem to break it either.

IIRC didn't Memphus' team get Oracle at T-55 last game? This means we are still cutting it close. Though for some reason, they allowed MC to be opened with Oracle, but didn't bother running and engineer?! I had better re-read over their stuff again. The only thing I remember in detail form their game was the hairs standing on the back of my neck when I felt "this guy is cheating in his battles". This was well before Sullla dropped by and told him to "Knock it off!"

Their team did seem to be rather poor sports through it all, even up to the bitter end. Hope no one has to have an experience like that again this time around.
 
Snaaty, thanks for the report! I tried to make a sheet from it, but there are a few things that don't work out from what you've specified.
i try to copy here what i have:

agri-BRONZE-WHEEL-poly-priest-pottery-masonry-mono

faster bronze helped me chopping 2. worker (1 chop, 4 from capital)

build in capital: worker, warrior, warrior (grow to 3), switch to worker2, chop goes in worker, put overflow in settler (1 turn)

worker aktions are: improve rice9 improve rice8, chop4, irrigate dye41
worker 2 (r26) irrigate dye 41

both workers:
mine gems 21, mine gems 22, road 4

capital switches back to warrior to grow to 4 after putting overflow into settler (use irrigated dye to save 1 turn=dont work mined gems for 1 turn), restart settler at 4
Following this, I get that the capital grows to 2 on t18, to 3 on t22, and then completes the second worker on t26 (like you say). But then then irrigation on the dyes will complete on t27, and the first gem mine won't be up until t29 - but the city grows to 4 on t30! So what do you mean by "don't work mined gems for 1 turn" here? If we don't work the gems on t29, the first turn they are available, that won't make us grow any faster. What am I missing?

You didn't say, but I assumed you were working a forest instead of the unimproved dyes while building the worker at size 3, and the overflow turn into settler.

worker 1:
chop 7, r (1turn) 41 dye - finishes road

worker 2:
r (1turn), 41 (dye), then r 411 (where city 2 goes, so it can be founded same turn as settler is finshed

r36-settler finishes and builds city2
Check so far.

both workers:
farm on cows 8from city 2

1 worker mines hill 89
capital growth to 5, works new hill

then both workers chop 3 forest in total for capital, oracle finishes turn 47
If by t47 you mean end of t47, then I'm with you. I assume you then work a forest instead of one rice at size 5. I can't figure out a way to get the oracle completed at the end of t46/beginning of t47. I have 142 hammers at the start of t47. :confused:

EDIT: I looked at your save, and your Oracle was completed the same turn as mine, i.e. the IBT after t47 (which formally is indeed t47). So we're on the same page here. :)

then both workers start to chop forests near city 2 (city 2 works max. growth tiles, irrigated cow and irrigated dye) - here maybe can be saved a turn, cause i havent moved my workers ideal (with preabuilding roads and such)... ...maybe during running around with workers from capital to city 2 and back also...
My forest chops complete one turn "too early" for the Oracle, so unless I'm missing something and it is indeed possible to complete the Oracle at the start of t47, there should be room to pre-road some. I do get a road on the rice 8 "for free" already.

r51 mono in city 2 relifounded-switch OR + 2 forests chopped

r52 chops + whip in city 2

r53 - run gi
Check. You forgot to mention revolt to Judaism as well. ;)

hope this helps... ...im not that keen on mming:crazyeye:... ...so more than digging in the sankasten you wont see from me... ...spreadsheets ugh:lol:
That's fine, I'm happy to make it into a spreadsheet for you. :) But could you clarify my questions above?
 
Actually, by optimizing the treasury it's possible to get Mono on t50. It doesn't really help getting OR one turn earlier though, but no reason not to. Though of course the actual situation after scouting might be different.
 
Following this, I get that the capital grows to 2 on t18, to 3 on t22, and then completes the second worker on t26 (like you say). But then then irrigation on the dyes will complete on t27, and the first gem mine won't be up until t29 - but the city grows to 4 on t30! So what do you mean by "don't work mined gems for 1 turn" here? If we don't work the gems on t29, the first turn they are available, that won't make us grow any faster. What am I missing?

nothing, i was experimenting with irrigate or dont irrigate dye... ...irrgated dye + what you described above is best


You didn't say, but I assumed you were working a forest instead of the unimproved dyes while building the worker at size 3, and the overflow turn into settler.

YES

If by t47 you mean end of t47, then I'm with you. I assume you then work a forest instead of one rice at size 5. I can't figure out a way to get the oracle completed at the end of t46/beginning of t47. I have 142 hammers at the start of t47. :confused:

END OF 47 + work forest instead of rice

My forest chops complete one turn "too early" for the Oracle, so unless I'm missing something and it is indeed possible to complete the Oracle at the start of t47, there should be room to pre-road some. I do get a road on the rice 8 "for free" already.

same here... ...couldnt manage to get it 1 turn earlier, so roading rice seems fine... ...or find a way to get oracle 1 turn earlier:)

mono 1 turn earlier is great for reli-spreads and security of getting it

tenchars..
 
If by t47 you mean end of t47, then I'm with you.

The date of wonders completed is a little ambiguous because some count the turn when the last hammers go into the wonder, and others only count the turn when the wonder pop-up finally arises.

I think it`s simplest to simply count TURN METAL-CASTING IS IN. :p Seems we can all agree on that.

An important key to note though, is that wonders don`t generate their bonuses the turn the last hammers go in, but they DO generate GPPs on that turn. It seems a little strange, and maybe this is just small bug-glitch in the newer patches. I`m not sure this should be in there by design.
 
That's an artifact on the order that things are computed in the city. Commerce goes first, then production, then GPP, culture. So anything completed in the production step would affect both GPP and culture.
 
THere's some great stuff going on here, I've had a good play with the current Sandkasten, but didn't manage anything earth shattering!

Guess the big kicker is what our early explorations reveal?
 
I've been able to hit T-53 using a few different systems, but I just can't seem to break it either.

IIRC didn't Memphus' team get Oracle at T-55 last game? This means we are still cutting it close. Though for some reason, they allowed MC to be opened with Oracle, but didn't bother running and engineer?! I had better re-read over their stuff again. The only thing I remember in detail form their game was the hairs standing on the back of my neck when I felt "this guy is cheating in his battles". This was well before Sullla dropped by and told him to "Knock it off!"

Their team did seem to be rather poor sports through it all, even up to the bitter end. Hope no one has to have an experience like that again this time around.
Moderator Action: The case you are referring to was investigated and no proof of cheating was found. I understand you are still carrying a dissatisfied feeling with you from the previous game. I just ask you to realise this is a new game and expressing those feelings here in this new game is not ok.
 
Thanks Rik. obsolete didn't play the previous game though. I did, and if I let the feelings from that game still affect me then I wouldn't be here. We're all aware this is a completely new game and we'll play it as such. :)
 
Here's a complete sheet detailing Snaaty's opening.

Capital (up to t50 when Mono completes):


Midstown (up to t71 when Pyramids completes):


Worker actions (up to t51 and the last chop for Forge):


EDIT: Here's a link to the excel sheet: http://www.box.net/shared/ucxbnniqmd
 
Just wanted to mention a messed around for a good two-three hours or so with various opening, some crazier than others, and was unable to beat Snaaty's plan with regards to the pyramids being finished. I found a way to get the settler out earlier without sacrificing the Oracle, but in that particular scenario I only had one worker and the second city was not improved any. I'm going to dump a few more hours into this and see what else I can come up with, but I'm leaning toward Snaaty's right now.

Early exploration around the capital is going to be huge, so I'd like to see a 4 - 5 tile semi-circle uncovered around our capital (outside its BFC) so that we'll be able to see all of the land immediately available for our second city. It looks like Agriculture is the first tech researched in just about everyone's plan and a worker being built first seems universal as well, so I think our opening 9 turns are pretty much covered through researching Agriculture.
 
I tested this out completely (Snaaty's plan). Looks good.

Some reminders for me:

-Turn 24: Switch to OTHER plains forest since the fast worker will chop the southernmost one
-Turn 29: Switch to gems IMMEDIATELY after it is mined
-Turn 36: Second city founded, build WARRIOR to grow to size 2 ASAP
-Turn 37: Switch to 100% research
-Turn 51: Switch to Organized Religion BEFORE chopping (must remember)
-Turn 52: Whip second city

Here are some screenshots to verify the current plan:

Turn 20
Spoiler :


Turn 30
Spoiler :


Turn 40 (there's an error there, that second worker should be mining the vacant hill to the right)
Spoiler :


Turn 47 - Oracle - second city is almost ready to be 2-pop whipped
Spoiler :





Early exploration around the capital is going to be huge, so I'd like to see a 4 - 5 tile semi-circle uncovered around our capital (outside its BFC) so that we'll be able to see all of the land immediately available for our second city. It looks like Agriculture is the first tech researched in just about everyone's plan and a worker being built first seems universal as well, so I think our opening 9 turns are pretty much covered through researching Agriculture.

You're right about that. We need to get a second city site decided once we've explored the west. We have to hope for a good farmable tile nearby ... hopefully there is one.
 
Updated map for end of turn #1.
------------------------------------
Looks like we are going to be doing a major overhaul on how our initial plans were to be. At least in theory.

I've updated everything here, except for FoW, due to some of the ******edness on how Firaxis calcs LoS.

So, lets see how much better we may be able to improve things with our new knowledge here.
 

Attachments

  • Mavericks Turn 1.CivBeyondSwordSave
    33.5 KB · Views: 39
ok, with a little fiddling more, oracle is possible in turn 46, mids in turn 69:):

in turn 35, after the wood went into the settler, switch production 1 turn into a barracks (or whatever you feel like). like that, you finish settler 1 turn later, but overflow from settler + almost finished warrior goes into oracle (build from turn 35: barracks 1 settler 1finish-warrior 1finish, overflow for oracle 13hammrs-> enough hammers to get oracle 1 turn earlier -> turn 46, slowing the 2. city for 1 turn doesnt hurt us, see below thanks to the extra food from the rice

with the new map:
instead of irrigating the cow in the first testmap, irrigate the rice 8 from newplainshill

then proceed as planned in first simulations (mine hill near capital, chop all 3 woods -> attention that ALL wood goes to capital, tiles have to be switched manually + take care that both workers can get in 1 turn to the forests to chop for 2. city when planning their movement)

then DONT FARM SECOND RICE, split workers and chop 2 forests that will come int bfc of 2. city thanks to oracle culture:
View attachment 248872

growing and chops are timed in a way, we can get the mids also 1 turn earlier, meaning we can whip the forge in turn 51, thus getting the mids up in turn 69 (BEFORE turn 70, as was the innitial goal:goodjob:)
 
I am wondering, once our Forge-City turns Holy, what's the mathematical expectation for our Capital to get Jewdiasm auto-spread by turn-X?
 
If we do get Hinduism then that's ok, we can keep swapping religions. Anyhow, looks like without shrine we can still get about 10% per turn as long as we are roaded.

Good enough.
 
Top Bottom