Removal of Global Warming

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Global Warming was "streamlined" out of the game probably for the same reasons everything else was left out. Firaxis, in their misguided conception that their costumers are dumb, thought some people's mind would be blown away by such a concept. Either that, or it was politically motivated by a similar reasoning, wich would be worse, and therefore I prefer the first explanation.
 
It wasn't taken out due to political reason. As with religion (again not due to political reason) it was taken out because the developers don't have the money, time, and resources to make a complete game. They simply were not willing to devote the programming necessary to implement those things. It's easier to dumb down a game and call it streamlined to cover up for the lack of programming an in depth game worthy of $50.
 
Disgustipated said:
It wasn't taken out due to political reason. As with religion (again not due to political reason) it was taken out because the developers don't have the money, time, and resources to make a complete game. They simply were not willing to devote the programming necessary to implement those things. It's easier to dumb down a game and call it streamlined to cover up for the lack of programming an in depth game worthy of $50.
Click to expand...

Ok, there's also that. But that would be even worse than the political reason.:p
 
Disgustipated said:
It wasn't taken out due to political reason. As with religion (again not due to political reason) it was taken out because the developers don't have the money, time, and resources to make a complete game.
Click to expand...

Ditto. :cool:

Anyway - Global Warming in previous Civ version was a ( less than mediocre ) tentative to implement something for "natural balance" - based on climateric point of view in this case like the animal hordes which force players to protect their workers/settler in the very begining of the game was another tentative ( somehow more succesfull in my opinion ) ... :D

The real question : will we really like to have something like this, for "extra balance factor" in a Civ game ?
 
Mîtiu Ioan;9807243 said:
Ditto. :cool:

Anyway - Global Warming in previous Civ version was a ( less than mediocre ) tentative to implement something for "natural balance" - based on climateric point of view in this case like the animal hordes which force players to protect their workers/settler in the very begining of the game was another tentative ( somehow more succesfull in my opinion ) ... :D

The real question : will we really like to have something like this, for "extra balance factor" in a Civ game ?
Click to expand...

Well, I do miss having a good reason to keep forests around. You know, now that Health is out of the question.
 
I remember forcing global warming was an interesting but rare and desperate ploy in Civ2 if your opponents couldn't be beaten any other way. Other than that, if it happened it was only a mild irritation. Likewise its absence does not even move the irritation meter.
 
Venereus said:
Well, I do miss having a good reason to keep forests around. You know, now that Health is out of the question.
Click to expand...

That's a good point ... for the moment ( like in Civ 4 ) keeping forests around your cities is basically asking for troubles in case of an unattempted AI attack ... :p

Some sort of idea like each cities need to have a provision of lumber/citizen ( like food ) until coal/oil became available ? I know ... this will induce a new dimension to design and balance which is a total pain ... and requires alot of resource ... but could be interesting in principle ... :mischief:
 
I really loved Global Wamring and how it was implemented before. I wish they'd add it as an option for to force the use of alternative energy. Right now they're practically useless techs.
 
I cannot remember a single fun, balanced and realistic idea for a global warming mechanic. It's just one of those things that is really hard to implement. It's better they didn't implement anything than implement something ridiculous.
 
I would love to see global warming removed from the Civ games simply because Civ should not be 100% realistic, and should be FUN! Global warming just puts limits on how often you can nuke people... that = no fun to me!!

Aside from that, I do find it pretty amazing how people take the uncritical approach to global warming and believe (yes, definitely I will use that word as they have no reliable data to back themselves up with) that global warming is not happening.
 
Camikaze said:
I cannot remember a single fun, balanced and realistic idea for a global warming mechanic. It's just one of those things that is really hard to implement. It's better they didn't implement anything than implement something ridiculous.
Click to expand...

Really? I loved watching the ocean and sea levels rise. Some tiles becoming desert, and the impetus it put on you. If you had really awesome tiles you truly wanted to force people to cut back on CO2 emissions. If you had really crappy tiles it was fun to do all you could to add to global warming so you'd have new waterfront property.

It would be wonderful to have a check-box for start-game parameters to "enable global warming" or not. Best of both worlds, yes?
 
@ Gatsby

You are stating theory as fact.
There are FOUR reasons why you can not say anything conclusive about GW.

1. Too many scientific data contradicts eachother.
2. There is too many political involvement in a scientific subject, therefor too many research program results get doctored (proven), conclusions are biased and some results are being censored.
3. There are too many variables we know nothing about.
4. The measurement data that is available to us is on a miniscule timescale (110 years) to what it should be to make any conclusions. The lifetime of our planet is on a scale of billions.

Therefor I stand behind the opinion of TMIT on this
 
Fluxx said:
4. The measurement data that is available to us is on a miniscule timescale (110 years) to what it should be to make any conclusions.
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Wrong...ice core samples from Antarctica go back 750,000 years.

Read this and learn a little.

In all fairness I only know because I was preparing a talk on Ice Ages...which according to the ice cores are about to return [at least the next glacial period is - we are currently in the interglacial of an ice age] in the next 800 years. That might make a good mod...an encroaching ice age...
 
jpinard said:
Really? I loved watching the ocean and sea levels rise. Some tiles becoming desert, and the impetus it put on you. If you had really awesome tiles you truly wanted to force people to cut back on CO2 emissions. If you had really crappy tiles it was fun to do all you could to add to global warming so you'd have new waterfront property.

It would be wonderful to have a check-box for start-game parameters to "enable global warming" or not. Best of both worlds, yes?
Click to expand...

Well I suppose it is arguable that it was 'fun', because that's entirely subjective. But it wasn't realistic at all, and balance seems to be hardly the word to describe it.
 
UKScud said:
Wrong...ice core samples from Antarctica go back 750,000 years.

Read this and learn a little.

In all fairness I only know because I was preparing a talk on Ice Ages...which according to the ice cores are about to return [at least the next glacial period is - we are currently in the interglacial of an ice age] in the next 800 years. That might make a good mod...an encroaching ice age...
Click to expand...

I have seen the reference you used already in the documentary. However I was referring to the temperature change from 1900, not about the carbon dioxide levels.
It is amazing that people get patronizing, instead of proper inquiry.
The temperature change data was used in the famous "hockey curve" graph, that literally was the propellant for the current Kyoto protocol.
If you are really interested you find yourself the different papers on the subject, and see where the contradictions lie.
Oh, and about your Ice age subject. If you really did a paper on it, you should know that there is no way that we can predict the next Ice Age in a finite time span. Sure we can give a probability curve on a broad time table, but in no way there can be made any definitive conclusions, how, when or where a new ice age will occur.
 
Global warming, as presented in civ4, did not work well at all in the game. But even worse was the world cracking like an egg in the Next War mod after using too many nukes.

In my view, the implementation of global warming in previous versions of the game did not have much to do with making a political message, but it's removal in the newest game is probably due to a combination of it being not all that interesting a feature and it being disturbing to those who consider it a highly political issue. It's safer to just avoid modelling it at all.
 
I am thinking wether GW should be included or not is somewhat of a moot point. As the consensus seems to be that the late game of ciV is relatively balanced in comparison to the earlier ages and therefore resources would be best spent improving the beginning of the game rather then the end of it.

brento1138: Aside from that, I do find it pretty amazing how people take the uncritical approach to global warming and believe (yes, definitely I will use that word as they have no reliable data to back themselves up with) that global warming is not happening.
Click to expand...

For the life of me I cannot work out what this means. If someone uncritically looks at something it infers they look at it without questioning it and with a predetermined point of view, which could either be for or against. Also the word believe doesn't imply a lack of reliable data, I think you are mistaking the word "believe" with "faith" which does imply a lack of reliable data to back up a claim.
 
Global warming can't be properly implemented as a positive force... the best thing you can do is to avoid it.

Having a game mechanic that offers nothing but potential disaster can be very annoying (as it was in Civ4). Removal of global warming is one of few changes that was done right.
 
UKScud said:
Wrong...ice core samples from Antarctica go back 750,000 years.

Read this and learn a little.

In all fairness I only know because I was preparing a talk on Ice Ages...which according to the ice cores are about to return [at least the next glacial period is - we are currently in the interglacial of an ice age] in the next 800 years. That might make a good mod...an encroaching ice age...
Click to expand...

Yay finally! No one ever seems to pay attention to the fact that we are nearing the end of an interglacial period. Well played sir!:goodjob:

In other news: I hated civ II global warming firstly it makes it nearly impossible to use nukes, secondly it is one of the worst AGW mechanics I have seen yet. Rising sea levels? I think not. All that Ice is displacing a lot of water, so when it melts yes there will be more liquid water but guess what! That ice won't be displacing anything any more.

Also am I the only one who notices that the ice caps are GROWING.
 
Venereus said:
Global Warming was "streamlined" out of the game probably for the same reasons everything else was left out. Firaxis, in their misguided conception that their costumers are dumb, thought some people's mind would be blown away by such a concept. Either that, or it was politically motivated by a similar reasoning, wich would be worse, and therefore I prefer the first explanation.
Click to expand...

By far the most likely reason is that the game was released before they could even present a complete AI, or war vs peace strategy balance, or a game that does not crash on us. Those kinds of things are a much bigger priority than any kind of GW - before we go adding features (or asking for more of them), it's probably a good idea to work on/ask for the features that are in the game to work!
 
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