What is the most useless unique unit?

What is the most useless unique unit?

  • Navy SEAL

    Votes: 33 23.7%

  • Camel Archer

    Votes: 5 3.6%

  • Jaguar

    Votes: 14 10.1%

  • Bowman

    Votes: 3 2.2%

  • Numidian Cavalry

    Votes: 3 2.2%

  • Gallic warrior

    Votes: 3 2.2%

  • East Indiaman

    Votes: 2 1.4%

  • Oromo Warrior

    Votes: 1 0.7%

  • Panzer

    Votes: 22 15.8%

  • Phalanx

    Votes: 4 2.9%

  • Landsknecht

    Votes: 8 5.8%

  • Samurai

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Ballista Elephant

    Votes: 18 12.9%

  • Hwacha

    Votes: 2 1.4%

  • Skirmisher

    Votes: 1 0.7%

  • Holkan

    Votes: 1 0.7%

  • Dog Soldier

    Votes: 4 2.9%

  • Janissary

    Votes: 1 0.7%

  • Conquistador

    Votes: 3 2.2%

  • Cossack

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Berserker

    Votes: 2 1.4%

  • Vulture

    Votes: 1 0.7%

  • Berserker

    Votes: 1 0.7%

  • Impi

    Votes: 1 0.7%

  • None of the above (please specify)

    Votes: 6 4.3%
  • Total voters
    139
No, swords arent bad because of UUs, they're bad because of axemen, and also HAs are much better for offense due to their mobility. I dont rely on luck or the chance of an opponent not having copper, as the AI are usually very quick to settle strategic resources on higher difficulties. Its a very rare scenario that the AI will not have axemen before you get to IW on Imm / Deity.

Also I would always prioritize construction after the opportunity for an axe or HA rush has passed. Between axes and catapults, swordsmen are too weak and easily countered to fit the gap.

Also I forgot, that if I have access to iron and a non fishing civ, I can get to Crossbows just 1 turn later than getting IW with a bulb, which are vastly better at that time for attacking cities with prior to construction.
 
Tatran said:
Maybe it's me, but I don't see much difference between unit with 5 :strength: or a unit with 6 :strength:.
The amount of battle rounds to win (to kill the archer) is probably the same in most situations.
Click to expand...

Next time you're taking a barb city, bring one of each and compare the odds. The difference is significant.

No, swords arent bad because of UUs, they're bad because of axemen
Click to expand...

I'm relieved that you have retracted your vulture/ immortal/ war chariot comparison.

Nobody is suggesting that swordsmen are ideal in all situations. Quite the opposite. They are usually not a good prospect for the obvious reasons.

But, to overlook them completely is to miss some juicy attacking opportunities. It's a mistake to assume that all AIs get metals automatically. There are a lot of AIs that will delay researching even something as fundamental as Mining, because they prefer to pursue religious and cultural techs instead. On Immortal it's quite feasible to kill people like Isabella and Hatshepsut with swordsmen, even when they have copper in their BFC!

I'm not making this stuff up, you know. These are facts. :old:

Just because swordsmen are inappropriate most of the time doesn't stop them from being awesome some of the time. My initial point, which was simply that they are underrated, still stands.
 
But you can do the same with axes just much faster and before they've settled too many cities and built up more defense units.
 
Definitely have to agree with bhavv in this case. If you're rushing a non-metal civ, you're better off going with axes for the increased speed (significantly less time researching). That way they have fewer units, and less chance of suddenly finding a metal.
 
And you need iron for swords, so thats not really a counter argument. And by the time you get to IW, theres rarely going to be any AIs without metal yet, unless your playing on low difficulties.
 
bhavv said:
And you need iron for swords, so thats not really a counter argument.
Click to expand...

It's not a counter-argument, I just thought I'd join in with the general theme of stating the obvious. :p Of course axes are faster and better. I don't think anybody would disagree with that. Copper is not guaranteed by any means, however, and failing that, iron is the next best metal for the job.

As for the repeated point of:

And by the time you get to IW, theres rarely going to be any AIs without metal yet, unless your playing on low difficulties
Click to expand...

I've already addressed that one in a previous post...:sad:
 
NihilZero said:
Of course axes are faster and better. I don't think anybody would disagree with that.
Click to expand...

Totally !!!!! Like - hell of a lot of beakers untill I can get Horse Archers ! + (+3 exp from stables at the expense of even more turns ?) , not to mention hell of a lot :science: beakers ! ( not to mention marathon and huge maps !!! .......
(actually huge maps are perhaps a countermeasures to rushes but still ....)

PS. A small "ps" I still need resources ! ;) so ...... cutting me off from resources will do the trick ;)

PS 2. Works both ways :satan:
 
Not Axes make swords so so, but their slow speed.
With that logic HAs would be bad too when countered by spears and we know how well those can work even on deity, and swords are even stronger attackers with CR + 10% and maybe agg.
But that's cos AIs have much less time to move units into their cities against HAs, and whip new ones.
All this does not matter much on diff. that are not deity, everything works on Imm including swords.
 
HAs are bad when countered by spears, but the AI is simply flawed in that regard that it doesnt build as many spearmen as it does axemen.

The success of HA rushes are more due to exploiting this nature of the AIs reluctance to build enough spearmen. On the other hand the same cant be said about swords because the AI builds a lot more axemen when it has access to metal.

The slow speed isnt the issue at all, because both axes and WEs have the same speed but are far more successful rush units.
 
I thought that war chariots were move 2 units. Their success is based on a 25% increase in strength over the base unit.
 
I thought it's "move and raze" at the same turn ;) , oh sorry pillage ! move and pillage ! of course ;)
 
I meant WEs, war elephants oops. 1 move but still deadly.
 
Just tested Gallics on Imm. after a longer time where i did not play with them, and rushing Hammy worked who is much tougher with his Bowmen than most other AIs.
Fair enuf that you want CR first, but after that going for G3..just so much fun.
Next AI was Sury and his Axes had no chance against some general powered C3 G3 Gallics with all other units being helpless anyways.
I think if Celts would have better starting techs, they would be very popular.
 
I was like : "Oh Man CivNoobie is in the house !! :D" But now I am conemplating aphibious elephants ......

Sorry CivNoobie You are a good guy And I am simply sorry ...:( :( :( Really sorry :( Go get'em ! ^^ ;)
 
On multiplayer Panzers wipe the floor with tanks :p and make mincemeat out of modern armour.:eek:

Anyway, Jaguar is the best unit ever!:rolleyes: Compare to praetorians:

Praetorian: :cool: Come here silly barbarian.

Jaguar: Oh oh! Run!:(

Praetorian::cool: Got you!

Jaguar::eek::sad: Lhhhh.... (DEAD)
 
Personally I think that the Ballista Elephant gets a bit too much flak. Yeah, it's pretty crappy, but it's still a War Elephant. I'd take a good unit with a bad upgrade over a bad unit with a good upgrade anyday.

I'm also surprised to see the Jaguar beating out the Landcrap.

Out of curiosity, how effective is the Numidian Cavalry? I never really play as Carthage.
 
MilesBeyond said:
Personally I think that the Ballista Elephant gets a bit too much flak. Yeah, it's pretty crappy, but it's still a War Elephant. I'd take a good unit with a bad upgrade over a bad unit with a good upgrade anyday.

I'm also surprised to see the Jaguar beating out the Landcrap.

Out of curiosity, how effective is the Numidian Cavalry? I never really play as Carthage.
Click to expand...

on deity it should be stronger then stock according to some well know civvers. It's because the AI's have metal sooner on deity and like to spam melee units if they can opposed to lower levels where they spam archers for long time.
 
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