Deity - permamently outteched

Hello,
as the title says, I`ve got problems with keeping pace with the AI in reseraching.
I played a lot of games on deity and tried a domination victory with china.

But the AI outtechs me everytime. I can keep pace with the other civs till they got the gatling and then I can throw in the towel. I`ve got enough of chinas special bowmans, but even when they are upgraded, I need 6 of them for one ridiculous gatling...

I tried attila, too. I conquered a few cities and failed at the rest, because they were surrounded by forests or hills, what slows down my "rush" and guess what...outteched again.

My strategy: For attila I follow this one
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=519905

With china: http://www.reddit.com/r/civ/comments/2e5gld/china_domination_deity_sub_300_turn_victory/


I don`t know, what to do...restarting until I got a "perfect map" sucks and also to give in after 20 hours playtime, just because the AI was a few rounds faster.

On immortal I manage to win, so at least I know the basics of the game.

Have you tried this strategy?

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=503931

No disrespect to Cromagnus, but I could not easily get results with his Attila guide, but have found that Moriarte's liberty domination strategy allows me to take 1-2 capitals before T80 and then consolidate by growing my non-puppeted cities until XBs or artillery.

I've won with a bunch of civs using this strategy and would assert that it's the most consistent approach to domination I've yet found.

Whether you go tradition or liberty, IMO the absolute key to catching up in tech is timing your social policies perfectly so that you can pop rationalism on your sixth social policy and on the exact turn that you hit the renaissance era. This often means beelining straight to acoustics after you get civil service, and skipping building workshops until after.

Tech beelines:

Pottery -> Animal Husbandry -> Luxes -> Bronze working -> Construction or writing -> Philosophy -> Engineering or Civil service -> Education - > Acoustics, THEN Metal casting after you start rationalism.

This often requires that you use your first great writer for a political treatise, or that you work a very specific amount of guild specialists to time the turn right. I've never had to, but if push came to shove I think you would be correct in selling a monument in one or two of your cities simply to delay getting your seventh social policy.

The reasoning behind all of this is that not only is 10% flat boost to tech enormous, but it allows you to get the next SP, secularism like 20 turns earlier which probably equates to like 6 turns worth of beakers.

Doing the above will cause you to shoot ahead of most if not all of the AI's in tech by turn 180, provided that you were able to get your National College up around turn 85-95 and universities up around 110-120 (that last part is only really important for your capital, if your runt 4th or 5th city doesn't have a university by 130 or so, no big deal.)

If one civ is still ahead in tech after that, IMO you should surgically strike his capital as early as possible after teching for artillery. If the geography is not favorable for this, you may need to wait until Flight and conquer someone weak who has oil (assuming you didn't get any on your land). This is all true even if you're going for a different victory condition. If you're going for science or culture you need to eat this guy's capital or he will beat you first.

Well I'm not sure that you *need* to go straight into Rationalism unless you're going for SV (in which case Rationalism is the obvious second policy). If going for CV, you'll want Aesthetics, if going for Diplomatic, you'll want Patronage; and in a Dom Victory, some Honor might be useful, at least up to Military Tradition (I think that's what the +50% XP policy is called).
So what I'd normally do is finish the starting tree, start Aesthetics/Patronage/Honor (if Dom, maybe even starting honor before finishing trad/lib), get some key policies in Rationalism once I hit Rationalism, and then decide which tree I want to finish first.
Also, it might be nice to try timing Rationalism finisher to get a key tech like Plastics--similar to the way you prebuild Oxford and then finish it for Radio or something important.

I think the rationalism/secularism two pointer is hard to compete with regardless of what victory condition you're going with. Finishing out aesthetics for CV is no rush, CV is just another form of SV since it requires the internet to influence the runaway AIs. I think the only time you shouldn't go straight into rationalism is if you are going for a sub 200 domination victory or if you have some weird trait combo like Alex/Ramkhamhaeng and patronage etc. Some wide empires would probably do better going full commerce, but I have never been able to effectively play wide in deity.

IMHO, early domination is a no-future strategy. Like Sacred Sites, if it fails, you'll have a hard end game.
I'm not able to win early domination on Deity. I think because I never train myself for this game. Basics are not the same on Deity, IMHO.

So like consentient, I suggest to learn how to win like Moriarte. If you enjoy this way, with time, you'll be able to win before T150 a domination game on Deity. Pillage and instant heal seems to be a key for this condition.

While Civ V is science is King in general, Deity is that on steroids.

(Early trade route via any source to get beakers for the AI from them being ahead [you can disband the caravan to replace with a cargo ship when the route expires])

For your first attempt you may want to go to advanced start and turn on cultural policy saving so that if you mistime a new social policy to the Rean era you just hold onto it.

On Cultural victory and Aesthetics, its worthwhile to open that tree before Rationalism, but its still better to complete Rationalism before completing Aesthetics.
But unless your first civ is Incas or Brazil you are probably better off seeking either Diplomatic or Science Victory for your first deity victory anyway.

renton555 said:

I think the rationalism/secularism two pointer is hard to compete with regardless of what victory condition you're going with. Finishing out aesthetics for CV is no rush, CV is just another form of SV since it requires the internet to influence the runaway AIs. I think the only time you shouldn't go straight into rationalism is if you are going for a sub 200 domination victory or if you have some weird trait combo like Alex/Ramkhamhaeng and patronage etc. Some wide empires would probably do better going full commerce, but I have never been able to effectively play wide in deity.

Click to expand...

Rationalism is needed for fast victories but not needed for just beating the AI, not to mention to just catch up with the AI. Growth and university specialists are all you need to catch up in science.

Thanks for the answers. I tried several games and Moriarte`s strategy is really a safe one that makes it easy to reach a domination-win.

Correctly played, I can found 4 cities 5-7 turns earlier as I usually do. But unfortunately I noticed the "rationalism-rennaisance-problem" too late. In my game I almost kept up with the AI, but entered renaissance too late to spend the decisive point...

Now I have to deal with a 2700-points-Attila, an 1200-points-Washington and myself with 1200 points...

When attila "runs away" like that he's usually woefully behind in tech and just has a load of cities.

Forget early Domination on deity if you arent a very good Player, it hurts more as it helps.
The liberty Domination guide is horrible.

bascily ist normal to be outteched untill ren era. No big deal.

Just be calm, build yourself up and if u dont do big mistakes and stay happy all game u ll pass by ai late ren era.

did you bother to build procelain tower and get RAs with multiple AIs? That usually helps a lot when you want to push for modern first to get free ideologies.

on deity it's very common to be outteched by the AI, but at around 150 you should be back on track, otherwise you're probably in trouble.

this is a bit of a tangent, but I think the free rationalism immediately in ren era is a big reason Poland is so great.

Go tall... Go insanely populated... Stay friendly with your neighbors and with good starting locations you will definitely out-tech the on AI on Deity. You need full tradition, then I move straight to Rationalism and focus on friendships and enemies. I would avoid all wonders but Porcelain Tower/National College/Oxford/Caravans set for the first 50 turns on neighboring Science then on food pumping your Empire..Hammers if needed for improvements. Make sure my Specialists Citizens are set early and look for bonus Science Civs like Babylon(they get a lot of Science bonuses and right away a big boost for people having issues keeping pace with the AI)

P.S. If on bumpy Real Estate defenses don't need to be so heavy, if on flat ground and aggressive neighbors...all sorts of other considerations about overall strategy and the map type. A good Starting position and a defense military should keep you safe from invasion..not always though if you are not participating in World Politics

If you want to continue then just try to survive because good advanced units can often be defeated by more primitive units.. you can also try to steal technologies from deity ais that are more expensive.

consentient said:

Have you tried this strategy?

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=503931

No disrespect to Cromagnus, but I could not easily get results with his Attila guide, but have found that Moriarte's liberty domination strategy allows me to take 1-2 capitals before T80 and then consolidate by growing my non-puppeted cities until XBs or artillery.

I've won with a bunch of civs using this strategy and would assert that it's the most consistent approach to domination I've yet found.

Click to expand...

Really? I was watching peddroelm deity honor videos but theyre so long to watch them all. I have done the same with honor domination but only works in emperor difficulty or below.