Deity Boudicca Culture

renton555

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This is not really a guide, more like a perspective. I'm certainly looking for criticism.

I had never tried a culture game in deity, so I chose a medium-strong culture civ (I didn't want to go with an easier one like france). At first glance boudicca's trait seems pretty meh:

Druidic Lore: +1 Faith per City with 1 unimproved Forest tile next to it. Increases to +2 Faith with 3 or more unimproved Forests.

My interpretation is that this ability is weak on the surface but pretty good in some subtle ways.

1) It allows you to always get a good pantheon, and very early on (probably no later than turn 20 even in the worst of luck), delaying the need for building shrines until you have your monument/scout/archer/caravan whatever out.

2) In terms of making celts "strong for religion" it's better than the mayan pyramid (since maya has to invest hammers to get this +1 faith bonus per city) and on par or slightly weaker than ethiopia's Stele (which again has to invest hammers but it gets a full +2 faith per city that other civs don't get).

3) My favorite part of this UA is that there appears to be a forest spawn bias. Forests are great because they're versatile, you're assured to have ample food and production tiles, and you can easily chop to get libraries, making 4 city national college by turn 85 very easy to attain. In my game I had four cities with libraries well before I could reach philosophy tech, other wise I would have been able to start building the NC even earlier.


I won't speak about the UU Pictish Warrior since it's pretty ineffectual at changing the game one way or the other. If you farm barbarians with a pair of them you may get a religion like 4-5 turns sooner and that means something I guess.

The UB Ceilidh Hall, however is one of the best UB's in the game, IMO:

1. +3 happiness means it practically negates the penalty for creating a new city.

2. It's a culture building, meaning it is subject to the legalism policy. Timing legalism for when you hit acoustics means you're trading a social policy for 800 hammers, in a part of the game where a wonder is 500 hammers. Pretty huge value there.

IMO, all in all what Boudicca has to offer is a medium-wide and tall culture or science peaceful civ.

Social Policies:

I dabbled in many different trees before finishing any of them, which I think is a little unorthdox.

Tradition (open) --> Liberty/ Republic / Collective Rule

I opened with tradition because that opener is awesome almost regardless of what you want to do. I think there's a decent case to be made for choosing the tradition opener even if you 100% plan to go liberty. It saves you 1000s in tile-buying throughout the game and the flat +3 culture goes a long way in negating the delay for future policies such as the free settler liberty. I think you only lose a few turns and you gain a lot for that, especially if you intend to get legalism / Ceilidh hall combo anyway.

Aesthetics (open) or Aristocracy or Citizenship (choose one and only one)

I intended to choose Aesthetics in my game but I didn't get to the medieval era early enough. I had stolen/liberated a ton of workers so I chose Aristocracy over Citizenship as I was about to build the NC and the oracle. That said, I think I should have chosen Citizenship regardless for some reasons that will be apparent later.

Aesthetics (open) --> Cultural centers --> Legalism --> Rationalism (open) --> Secularism

Even if going for a culture victory, I would advise bulbing your first great writer to narrow the time gap between popping your Ceilidh halls and opening rationalism. The great writers don't contribute much tourism anyway since the wonders are so hard to get other than oxford, and this gets you 8 or so more turns of beakers from Rationalism and Secularism.

What I like about sloppily taking your pick between all these trees is that it gives you a lot of versatility in responding to unpredicable situations. If you have problems with happiness or GPT, you're always a few turns away from Monarchy or Commerce. If you get
DOWed unexpectedly, you're a few turns from Oligarchy to bump your city attack by 50%. If you're having trouble reaching tech parity, there's always the option of going deeper into rationalism sooner than you'd hoped.

Also, a lot of these policies are worth more if you delay getting them. Obviously, legalism is the best example of this, as it produces exponentially more free hammers the longer you wait. But this concept also applies to Artistic Genius and the Liberty finisher, as great people become harder and harder to produce as the game goes on. Finishing liberty before you ever get a great scientist is only worth 100gpp, finishing it on turn 250 is worth like 900gpp and way more beakers.

I won't go into where to go from here with SPs as it obviously depends on the situation. You'll obviously want to finish out Aesthetics first and choose Freedom ideology. Eventually you will finish rationalism (I did it for radar, but you could do it for Internet if you feel the game will go on for that long) and Liberty finisher is reserved for your coup de grace, giving you one more great musician. Finishing out tradition is fairly worthless as you don't have the faith to spare for engineers and you will be hard building aqueducts. That policy is the opposite concept of legalism, as it is worth more the earlier you get it. Open exploration of course to get the louvre and probably before you get archeologists because the naval bonus is worth it to find the random artifacts that are on deserted islands. You'll want to uncover all of the city states as well to see if they have artifacts.

Tech Beelines:

Pottery --> Animal Husbandry --> Luxury Tech --> Bronze working --> Writing (no threats) or Construction (threats) --> Sailing if early trade routes or available, otherwise no --> Philosophy

Try to get four cities and a national college by turn 85. Settle your cities in such a way that you stake off some extra space for post NC/legalism expansion. Patrol it with blocking units. This is a civ that has the capability of going 5-6 tall cities and that will make your beakers/turn explode. Obviously not every deity game allows for this much expansion, but definitely go far out of your way to get at least 4 cities.

Engineering --> Civil Service --> Education --> Acoustics

Engineering is a tech detour on your way to CS and acoustics but its a necessary one as you will need to hardbuild aqueducts and the 3rd trade route is crucial. As for acoustics, it certainly hurts not getting workshops for so long and waiting 12-14 turns for a tech, but it's very worth it to get early rationalism, since its the fastest way to get to Renaissance era. It will also give you a great chance of getting the crucial Sistine Chapel, which you should turn off every specialist and stop growth in your capital to build as quickly as possible.

Metal Casting ---> Machinery --> Printing Press

Try to get pisa and probably fail. In my game I crashed growth and science in my capital and second largest city and had them each try to build Pisa and Globe respectively, Pisa failed and Globe succeeded.

Scientific Theory --> Archaeology or Industrialization

I chose industrialization in my game because I had a very good chance of getting the first ideology. If you don't think you have a good chance, it's probably worth more to get artifacts earlier.

Electricity --> Radio

I used oxford to get radio. There's probably a case for saving it for a more expensive tech but you're wasting theming tourism and some flat beakers per turn for that so it's hard to strike a balance.

Refrigeration (hotels) --> Replaceable Parts (Statue of Liberty) --> Radar (airports) --> Plastics (research lab) --> Telecommunications --> Internet

Pretty self explanatory here for culture victory. I popped rationalism finisher to get Radar and won on turn 270, well before NVS/internet would be necessary.

Wonders:

You should be able to get all of the modern era and later wonders that you want since you will be ahead in tech by then, as far as early ones, I would definitely try for the oracle, probably in a city that isn't your capital. The AI really doesn't prioritize this wonder and since it has no tourism use, it should go in a satellite city to get the flourishing of the arts +33% bonus. Porcelain tower and statue of liberty should ideally go in your 3rd and 4th cities for the same reason.

Oracle, Pisa, Globe, Sistine Chapel, Eiffel Tower, Uffizi, and Broadway are the big ones you should at least attempt. I don't think any of them are required though. I think if I lost pisa AND sistine I would probably look at artillery rushing that guy's capital to get those wonders, though.
 
That's kind of a specious way of looking at it. If you build 4 cities and use legalism, that will give you enough happiness to sustain a 9 population fifth city right away, ignoring what ever luxuries that city is able to exploit and ignoring the fact that it has its own local happiness buildings to eventually build. This amounts to a significantly large amount of beakers/gold/hammers per turn that a non happiness-buffed civ wouldn't have access to.
 
It's a culture building, meaning it is subject to the legalism policy. Timing legalism for when you hit acoustics means you're trading a social policy for 800 hammers, in a part of the game where a wonder is 500 hammers. Pretty huge value there.
Well, if you are taking Cultural Centers, it's less than 800 hammers.

So far only Poland can successfully do a Tradition/Liberty mix, in my opinion.
 
Well, if you are taking Cultural Centers, it's less than 800 hammers.

So far only Poland can successfully do a Tradition/Liberty mix, in my opinion.

True enough, its closer to 600 hammers but its also 600 hammers + 12 happiness. With normal civs the culture buildings each provide the same benefit for increasing hammer costs so doing this has a lot less merit; you're better off just going tradition and getting free monuments.
 
Hi Renton. Interesting post, let me make a few comments based on my experience:

I chose a medium-strong culture civ (I didn't want to go with an easier one like france).

I agree that Boudicca is a medium-strong culture civ, as it gets the faith ball rolling a little faster. I'd have to disagree with you about France being an easy one though. In my experience the benefit from France is quite minimal, when what you really want is help at the beginning. As others have said on this topic, the crucial part of the CV is getting science going as early as possible.

Tradition (open) --> Liberty/ Republic / Collective Rule

Interesting your reasons for going for Tradition early and then going back later on for the free social policies. However, after playing quite a few experiments I think that this is probably not as good as it seems. You talk about the increasing number of hammers that the policy saves; this is of course correct. However, it's all relative in a way, because later in the game you can produce these buildings more or less in the same or less number of turns as the Monument. But what's super important in the Deity CV is to get a good start, so I think those early Monuments really help. Plus, you have a lot of SPs to get through with the CV (Tradition or Liberty + Aesthetics + a fair bit of rationalism + ideologies). This means that you will be missing out on important other policies if you waste two more in Tradition. Finally, I think that it shouldn't be underestimated how important the Tradition policies are. Forgive me, I don't know the names, but you really do feel the lack of production in wonders when you're in Liberty. And the growth, no need for aqueducts. And the happiness and gold for your tall capital. And Great Engineers with faith! Which might come in handy especially if you're not doing too well faith-wise. I honestly think it's better than the Trad/Lib mix.

I would advise bulbing your first great writer to narrow the time gap between popping your Ceilidh halls and opening rationalism. The great writers don't contribute much tourism anyway since the wonders are so hard to get other than oxford, and this gets you 8 or so more turns of beakers from Rationalism and Secularism.

For the reasons I've been talking about (getting a good science start), you may be on to something here. Will experiment next time I play.

You'll obviously want to finish out Aesthetics first

I would say opening aesthetics and maybe the golden age policy would be priorities. You won't get many theming bonuses until the end anyway so I wouldn't recommend finishing aesthetics before close to the end. Prefer to get more policies in rationalism and/or ideology tenets.

Open exploration of course to get the louvre and probably before you get archeologists because the naval bonus is worth it to find the random artifacts that are on deserted islands.

I would say the Louvre isn't that important, more important is getting away with your science. You're basically wasting a SP for a wonder so I tend to leave it til near the end if noone else has built it (which is usually the case). I've never found it a problem to uncover enough artifacts nearby. What you need to do though when you research Astronomy is to purchase about 4 scouts and buy open borders from everyone. Let them explore and they can sit on some of the sites.

Agree with most of the other tips, the wonders are important to get but it's not necessary to get all or even most of them in my experience. Pisa is surely better than Sistine although I agree getting into the Rennaisance early. Another thing to do is watch for culture runaways, prioritise cultural city states and making sure everyone is at war with each other as much as possible.

You said you won the game (nice one!) - did you save the Musician's Guild/ Great Musician spam with built up faith until the end? Or did you win "naturally"? If the latter, you were either very fortunate or need to give me some lessons!
 
It was a diety pangaea game. I had a few positive things going for me and a few negatives as well. All in all I'd say it was a slightly below average difficulty game. I had 4 cities by turn 55 and I got double dowed by neighboring Poland and the distant Huns for "settling cities too aggressively." It was very unpredictable as Poland didn't covet my land so I couldn't pre-empt with a bribe. Thankfully I only had to deal with incoming units from poland, huns were too far away. I had my frontier cities settled on hills and I just rush bought two archers while my capital built the NC. The addition of a couple of units to my army + my killing several of his units made a peace treaty possible rather quickly. Then I got the national college on turn 83.

The other big disadvantage is that I went the first 150 turns of the game without a DOF, and since it was pangaea I was only able to get my trade routes to 2 or 3 of the civs for the tourism bonus. That said, it was a rather tech-slow game for the AIs and I was also able to build the hanging gardens as no one went tradition (!).

The huns erased a civ (China) very early on which probably helped me get wonders out a bit more reliably. I made sure that the huns were at war with at least 2 civs throughout the game and went out of my way to ally all of my neighboring CS, one of which was a military who gave me a couple of keshiks and allowed me to avoid building units too much. For the entire game I was couched in geographicallly by 5 CS allies.

I gained the tech lead fairly early and was the first ideology and probably the 3rd civ to get archaeologists. I crushed the artifact race, filling up 5 museums with themed pairs along with the louvre. The keshiks and my pictish warriors (now lancers) helped tremendously with this as I was able to use their 4/5 move to tear ass through the continent and find all of the city state dig sites. I also stole artifacts from weak civs or civs that I had extremely high standing with, IMO the diplo hit is worth it. I was working on digging up 2 of the last 3 sites when I won the game, I couldn't for the life of me find the last one, it was probably under one of the random scattered single unexplored tiles that I didn't bother to uncover, or my eyes failed me.

I only required two great musicians to win. My faith per turn was abysmal because I had no favorable faith pantheon, I ended up taking fertility rites for growth because I had no good faith or culture terrain, so I was only able to buy one musician with faith and I got the other one from liberty finisher. Musicians guild didn't run too much because I frequently needed to turn those specialists off in the capital to get through the way backed-up build order in the capital. For religion, with my weak faith I was able to convert neighboring poland for 40-50 turns of tourism bonus but eventually they were overwhelmed by neighboring religions. After that I kept it local, I chose the +5 tourism for hermitage belief, mosques, and tithe. Honestly the religion didn't help me all that much in this particular game.

I won the game on turn 270, would have won earlier but the huns took over a lot of greece's cities that had a lot of great works, and added to that, the world congress passed a trade embargo against him, lol.
 
With Boudicca on Deity I don't think it's a bad idea to open with Honour, beeline to Bronze Working and spam Pictish Warriors, then go barb hunting. It will net you a lot of culture and faith, decrease your chances of a DoW, increase your chances of a worker steal, and overall make you quite secure. After pumping out 5 or 6 of these you can concentrate on your empire, which if you're going for a culture victory should be almost a OCC if you're planning on mixing CV with war, or 3-4 cities if you're looking to stay peaceful. But I like to go full Honour so my armies can take on anyone, then move into Tradition to get free Ceilidhs and, usually you can finsih tradition too before going into rationalism/consulates/aesthetics as you need, if you've done sufficient conquest to capture some good wonders and make the money you need to ally the CS.

I recommend the above strategy because for me, once you've done a peaceful VC on Civ 5, they're always the same. Try to out-tech the AI and not get DoW'd by some psychopath neighbour, right?
 
Boudicca guarantees first pantheon, option to tech something other than pottery, and if you get your satellites up quickly enough it guarantees religion. Other than that they are a vanilla civ. if going for a Peaceful CV finish Tradition ASAP the growth difference, early happiness form monarchy and free aqueducts will outweigh delaying to get free hammers for Celtic halls. After Tradition 1 point in Aesthetics, go go rationalism (you can finish if you have 3-4 culture CS) freedom ideology, bank faith and while teching internet try and finish Aestetics.
 
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