[Religion and Revolution]: Further Native Nations

Not sure what's your current plans on the natives
But both SaibotLieh and Novator released the announced native leader in the past few days
Cockacoeske and Jasaw

Also, there is a new LH on sight, released as Purhepecha
IMO it's not bad at all, with a new background and different eye color it could work
 
Not sure what's your current plans on the natives

We do not have any plans about further Native Nations currently. :)
(It is simply about possibilities.)

Currently nobody knows if the team will be interested at all and if or when the needed skills might be available ... :dunno:
Maybe in a month or so, we might be able to get to a decision and a plan.

For Release 2 it is not planned anyways to include further Native Nations.

We will simply see what the future brings. :thumbsup:
 
Ray is correct about there being no plans to currently add any further native nations for release 2. However, the leaderheads AbsintheRed has found are quite promising.

The female leaderhead would not work for Cockacoeske. Her dress and background are more suited to tribes further west. Cockacoeske was Queen of the Pumunkey, a tribe within the Powhatan Confederacy in Virginia. She was the alternate leader we considered for the Algonquian. But the leaderhead could be used for other nations.

As for Jasaw, the leaderhead is very good, but personally I would like to use him for another Mesoamerican civ other than the Mayan which we already have. Maybe a civ a bit further south, as we already have the Aztec, Zapotec, Mixtec and Mayan in that area. Also Jasaw lived nearly 800 years before Columbus's arrival.

Purhepecha or more commonly known as the Tarascans, are also in the same area as the Mesoamerican civs above. They resided just to the north of the Aztecs. The leaderhead is good, and I think by changing the background and losing the checkered pattern of his clothes and replacing it with a more neutral color, he could be used to represent several native civs.

Nice work AbsintheRed in finding some good quality leaderheads.:goodjob:
 
Ray is correct about there being no plans to currently add any further native nations for release 2. However, the leaderheads AbsintheRed has found are quite promising.

The female leaderhead would not work for Cockacoeske. Her dress and background are more suited to tribes further west. Cockacoeske was Queen of the Pumunkey, a tribe within the Powhatan Confederacy in Virginia. She was the alternate leader we considered for the Algonquian. But the leaderhead could be used for other nations.

As for Jasaw, the leaderhead is very good, but personally I would like to use him for another Mesoamerican civ other than the Mayan which we already have. Maybe a civ a bit further south, as we already have the Aztec, Zapotec, Mixtec and Mayan in that area. Also Jasaw lived nearly 800 years before Columbus's arrival.

Purhepecha or more commonly known as the Tarascans, are also in the same area as the Mesoamerican civs above. They resided just to the north of the Aztecs. The leaderhead is good, and I think by changing the background and losing the checkered pattern of his clothes and replacing it with a more neutral color, he could be used to represent several native civs.

Nice work AbsintheRed in finding some good quality leaderheads.:goodjob:

Umm, some of these LHs were already known and the names in my last post are just how the LH maker released them
For the actual suggestions check the last page
Thanks anyway!

So, the top choices IMO (which already have fitting LH art):
North:
Crow/Apsáalooke with Pine Leaf (alternatively, using the same LH: Blackfoot/Niitsítapi if there is a good female leader for them)
Pawnee with Sharitahrish

Central:
Guaymi with Urraca
Purépecha/Tarascans with Erendira

South:
Omagua/Cambeba
Mapuche, maybe with Lautaro as leader?


EDIT:
Didn't really find good female leader-candidate for the Blackfoot
There are 2 good male leader options though (both Siksika): Crowfoot/Isapo-Muxika or Running Rabbit/Aatsista-Mahkan

Also, what's the best candidates for the Cree in your opinion?
Poundmaker/Pitikwahanapiwiyin or Big Bear/Mistahi-maskwa are among them?
 
Currently nobody knows if the team will be interested at all and if or when the needed skills might be available ...

The leaderhead is good, and I think by changing the background and losing the checkered pattern of his clothes and replacing it with a more neutral color, he could be used to represent several native civs.

Her dress and background are more suited to tribes further west.

All that is pretty easy, I could do it when needed.
 
All that is pretty easy, I could do it when needed.

Sounds good, will get into some details then
Based on colonialfan's comments, here are my suggestions:

Crow: Pine Leaf as leader
The LH art is perfect, no need for changes
Crow - Pine Leaf.jpg

Pawnee: Sharitahrish as leader
The LH art is good enough and fitting, only a new background is needed
Pawnee - Sharitahrish.jpg

Dene/Chipewyan: Thanadelthur as leader
I do beleive the art can be radically improved, as the face looks good and very fitting for a native female leader
Changes: Would need totally different hair and a background, probably some improvements on the clothing as well
Dene - Thanadelthur.jpg

Guaymi: Urraca
The LH art is great, no need for changes
Guaymi - Urraca.jpg

Tarascans/Purepecha: Erendira as leader
The LH art is good enough, no need for changes. Maybe blackening the hair for a younger look
Tarascans - Erendira.jpg

Mapuche: Lautaro as leader
Changes: Different background of course, fix eye colour, maybe a few small changes on the clothing patterns/colours
Mapuche - Lautaro.jpg

Cambeba/Omagua: Not sure about the leader yet, but the LH is suitable for anyone we can find for them
Changes: Remove mustache, maybe small changes on the clothing patterns/colours
Cambeba.jpg

Chachapoya: Guaman as leader
Changes: New background, improve clothing (I don't like neither the feathers, nor whatever he wears underneath them)
Chachapoya - Guaman.jpg


EDIT: And we of course have the Cree and the Seminole as one of the top remaining choices for North America (both from unrepresented areas)
But we don't have any suitable leaderheads for them yet...
 
Sounds good, will get into some details then
Based on colonialfan's comments, here are my suggestions:

Crow: Pine Leaf as leader
The LH art is perfect, no need for changes

I concur, no changes needed.


Pawnee: Sharitahrish as leader
The LH art is good enough and fitting, only a new background is needed

I think Sharitahrish is the best choice for a leaderhead, though I wish the graphics were a little better. They look a little crude to some of the other good leaderheads we have.

Dene/Chipewyan: Thanadelthur as leader
I do beleive the art can be radically improved, as the face looks good and very fitting for a native female leader
Changes: Would need totally different hair and a background, probably some improvements on the clothing as well

If we were to use the Chipewyan, then Thanadelthur would be the obvious choice. However, and this is just a personal thought, I'm not too sure what the Chipewyan would bring to the game. There are other tribes I think are a better choice, but that just my preference. As a side note, the leaderhead would need so much work that I wonder if it would be worth the effort?:(

Guaymi: Urraca
The LH art is great, no need for changes

Works for me.:)

Tarascans/Purepecha: Erendira as leader
The LH art is good enough, no need for changes. Maybe blackening the hair for a younger look

A possibility. The leaderhead is okay, I'm a little on the fence about it as we already have 4 civs crammed in a very small area.

Mapuche: Lautaro as leader
Changes: Different background of course, fix eye colour, maybe a few small changes on the clothing patterns/colours

I think a good choice for both leader and civ.

Cambeba/Omagua: Not sure about the leader yet, but the LH is suitable for anyone we can find for them
Changes: Remove mustache, maybe small changes on the clothing patterns/colours

The leader would be called Aomagua. It was the name for all Omagua chiefs. There is little information on them but I did dig up something. The text for them is already done. Although I think the leaderhead would still need a bit of an overhual. See attachment on page 10 post #195


Chachapoya: Guaman as leader
Changes: New background, improve clothing (I don't like neither the feathers, nor whatever he wears underneath them)

Worth pursuing perhaps?

EDIT: And we of course have the Cree and the Seminole as one of the top remaining choices for North America (both from unrepresented areas)
But we don't have any suitable leaderheads for them yet...

Sadly we do not. As for the Cree leaders you suggested I could go with either one.

Obviously there is not a map big enough to play with the current civs we have plus these additions, if they ever come into being, so players would have to pick and choose what native civs they wanted to play against. They might be interesting if incorporated into a modmod of some kind or another. Perhaps a Pre-Columbian native mod???
 
Obviously there is not a map big enough to play with the current civs we have plus these additions, ...

Exactly the opposite is the case. :)

Mapsize "Gigantic" would need more Natives.
(Currently the single Native Tribes are too big and strong.)

So if we really create further Native Nations, I would:

A) Increase max players in DLL once more
B) Configure Mapsize "Gigantic" to be playable with all our Nations again.
C) Adjust all maps again to new setting for max players in DLL
 
1. View attachment 331000 Looks great. :)
----------
2. View attachment 331001 Rather not use it. Quality is rather low. :dunno:
----------
3. View attachment 331002 Very bad quality and not even worth trying to improve. :(
----------
4. View attachment 331003 Looks great. :)
----------
5. View attachment 331004 Looks good, but small improvement might be considered. :)
----------
6. View attachment 331005 Generally a great leaderhead but several atmospherical changes should be done. :)
----------
7. View attachment 331006 Generally a great leaderhead but several atmospherical changes should be done. :)
----------
8. View attachment 331007 Rather not use it. Quality is rather low. :dunno:
----------
9. This one is also still available if I remember correctly. And it is quite good quality. :)

Summary:

There are 6 good leadherheads around, that could be used.
Eventually having 2 North, 2 Central and 2 South again.

However, nothing is decided yet. ;)

Pros:

1. Community would probably like to have more Natives.
2. Mapsize Gigantic would play better.

Cons:

1. Performance due to even more graphics.
2. Efforts considering UnitArtStyles, CitySets, ...
 
Exactly the opposite is the case. :)

Whoops, I guess I got that wrong.:blush:

Mapsize "Gigantic" would need more Natives.
(Currently the single Native Tribes are too big and strong.)

When you say gigantic, are you talking about the dimension of Raymerica (215x110)? If so I've been playing on a map of the Americas I created with those dimensions and with the numbers of native civs we have it can still be a bit crowded. I normally try to limit the native civs to no more than 6-7 villages each to still create some open spaces.

So if we really create further Native Nations, I would:

A) Increase max players in DLL once more
B) Configure Mapsize "Gigantic" to be playable with all our Nations again.
C) Adjust all maps again to new setting for max players in DLL

Sounds good to me, but further native nations is a big if at the moment.
 
Here is a template of the America's map I created that I was talking about in my previous post, played on the same size as Raymerica (215x110). Sorry I am not technical enough to send screenshots, and I only know how to create this map in worldbuilder, wiping out the Raymerica map. It's pretty crude, I have not included mountains/hills or terrain type, placement of settlements etc., etc., in this template, (I have others that are more detailed). This one just gives you a brief idea of what the outline of the map looks like. As I said in my previous post, I play with all the native civs present and try to limit their settlements to about 6-7 villages each, a few more for the bigger civs, and large villages/cities for the Aztecs and Incas.

Mapimage1.gif

If someone else wants to create a map for the game using this template, please feel free to. All I'd ask for is credit for the original design. (If you want a more detailed template let me know.) IGNORE THIS ATTACHMENT, I"M CURRENTLY WORKING ON A CLEANER AND MORE ACCURATE VERSION!!!
 
America's map I created that I was talking about in my previous post, played on the same size as Raymerica (215x110).

Could you upload the (raw) map you created into /transfer ?

I could create a final version of that in the next weeks, if you want.
(It would be part of our next release then.)

We could also do it like that:

1. I would create a randomized map.
2. You could later on create a historically correct scenario when we have finalized our list of Native Nations.
(Until we are not sure, if and which further Native Nations to add, such a scenario would not make sense.)
 
Could you upload the (raw) map you created into /transfer ?

I could create a final version of that in the next weeks, if you want.
(It would be part of our next release then.)

We could also do it like that:

1. I would create a randomized map.
2. You could later on create a historically correct scenario when we have finalized our list of Native Nations.
(Until we are not sure, if and which further Native Nations to add, such a scenario would not make sense.)

Hi Ray, forgive my technical stupidity, but when you refer to (raw) map, are you talking about the template I have created? The actual map I made on worldbuilder I did not save but I can create it again, it only takes a couple of hours to put together. Also when you say transfer are you refering to the SVN? If so where you you want it uploaded to in the SVN? I don't want to compromise anything.

As for the other plans, they sound good to me.:)
 
The actual map I made on worldbuilder I did not save but I can create it again, it only takes a couple of hours to put together.

I thought you did save it.
Why did you not ? :confused:

Well, it does not hurry anyways.
If you want to create the (raw) map again, go ahead. :thumbsup:
(I am talking about a WorlbuilderSave.)

Also when you say transfer are you refering to the SVN? If so where you you want it uploaded to in the SVN? I don't want to compromise anything.

/transfer is a folder in our SVN. :)
(It is the folder where we upload incomplete things to share them with the team.)
 
Hi folks,

We have reached a further level with our mod.

I have already discussed with raystuttgart, that we now have the time do discuss about further native nations. Especially for the map size "gigantic" it makes sense to add further nations.

I would prefer 2 or 3 new nations. If we decide to add 2, I would prefer one in the north and one in the south. If we decide to add 3 I would like to add one in the north, one central and one in the south.

Here are my votes:

North: Blackfoot/Niitsítapi with this LH: I will do the changes.

Central: Guaymi with this LH:
OR
Tarascans/Purepecha with this LH:


South: Cambeba/Omagua with this LH:

@ team:

What do you think?

Furthermore we need colonialfan for the research. Colonialfan, would that be possible?
 
Well I think in the next round, we should add 3 again.
(1 North, 1 Central, 1 South)

But actually (if the rest of the team would take the effort), I would like to have another round after that to add even 3 more.

-> 6 in total
(That would really be it then, because all good leaderheads would be used.)

My Favourite for North:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=331000
Alternative for North:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=331005

My Favourite for Central:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=331003
Alternative for Central:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=331004

My Favourite for South:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=331006
If we go to 6 in total and don't find anything better for the 2nd South:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=331007

Reasons for my 3 Favourites (if we only have one round with 3 more):
They are by far the best leaderheads we have left considering quality.
Also, they need the fewest changes.
And they all really look unique.
 
Furthermore we need colonialfan for the research. Colonialfan, would that be possible?

No problem Schmiddie. As for choices for future nations I imagine the team will get into that more after our upcoming release. I think we have a pretty comprehensive list from suggestions made in this thread. I'll take a look at them again and let the team know what are the most viable options in terms of significance, historical information at hand, feasibility of leaderhead, etc., etc.
 
No problem Schmiddie. As for choices for future nations I imagine the team will get into that more after our upcoming release. I think we have a pretty comprehensive list from suggestions made in this thread. I'll take a look at them again and let the team know what are the most viable options in terms of significance, historical information at hand, feasibility of leaderhead, etc., etc.

Great! :goodjob::goodjob:
 
Hi guys,

I took another look at the leaderheads we have available.

This one is really bad quality. :(
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=331007

Thus, maybe we could go with this set of leaderheads ? :
(The high quality male leaderhead that was considered for North would replace a low quality leaderhead for South.)

North 1:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=331000

North 2:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads/nanyehi_P68.jpg

Central 1:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=331003

Central 2:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=331004

South 1:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=331006

South 2:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=331005

-------------

I know, it might be a little hard to find a good historical match for Northern American female leaders.
But I would much rather have hight quality female leaderheads, than low quality male leaderheads.
 
One other important point:

We already have a lot of nations. All new nations need a colour. Since we have so much of them, we will have similarities regarding the colours and maybe onle slight differences between the nations. I think this cannot be avoided.
 
Top Bottom