Do enormous changes to gameplay this late in Civ5's lifecycle bode well ... ?

Horizons

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Civ5 is a couple of years old and Firaxis are unlikely to issue many more patches unless new DLC is forthcoming ... some of the changes made to the core game are vast and sweeping, and time is running out for official support to tweak and balance things out. Are we going to be left with an unbalanced mess like Civ4's corporations or Civ3. :(
 
I think the expansion is good. I think getting a second expansion is good. I think Firaxis making more money off a two year old game is good. I think because of Steam, Firaxis has been good at patching the game and working on balancing it.

I think the expansion has been out less than a week and people should untie the knots in their panties. No one forced them to buy the expansion. No one forced them to play the game. If they don't like the newest version of the game, there are 5+ previous versions of the game. I don't know how easy it is to roll back, but I think for me, I'd rather be playing the current version and adapting my play style than refusing to comprehend that the designers or a game would make changes that are in anything but my own personal best interest.

It's a Brave New World, either you embrace change or be crushed by it.
 
I believe they already stated there will be a fall patch. What comes after that, who knows? I'd like to think they'd keep at least a couple people working on patching the game if it is needed.
 
I think it bodes well, if it sells well. If BNW sells well you may see some more content, I mean as long is the market is there why go back to the drawing board. I think there's definitely room for more things.
 
I don't see any unbalanced mess. You can't really claim the game is unbalanced if it beats you in levels like prince.
 
Considering how successful Civ 5 has been, I believe that more development is in the works in DLC and patches. EU 3 had four expansions and a much smaller fanbase.
 
Firaxis has always been good with patches (at least for civ). They patched civ 4 BTS right before civ 5 came out. If memory serves correctly, they also patched civ 5 vanilla right before G&K, and they patched G&K right before releasing BNW.

With all the new features, they can milk civ 5 for a couple more years. Especially if they provide some dlc's. I think civ 6 will be announced sometime in 2014, and will probably be released in 2015. Which makes sense because historically a brand new civ game is released about once every 5 years. (when civ 6 is released, everyone will say how much it sucks and compare it to the better civ 5 BNW. Just like when civ 5 was released).
 
They will be bringing a Fall Patch, and who knows after. I could see some DLC coming, definitely not another expansion, but they aren't just going to give us BNW then not adjust its bugs.
 
I would certainly support some more DLC civs if they don't intend to do another expansion, especially since the ones included with BNW are very unique and I'd like to see more of that.

Personally I'd like to see a Modern Nations pack that includes stuff like Australia, Canada, Mexico and Argentina, and then one that includes all the remaining civs that have been featured before but aren't in V- Sumer, Khmer, the Sioux, the Hittites, and maybe the HRE and Mali, though it seems Austria and Songhai pretty much fill in the role of those two. Technically there's the Vikings too, but...Denmark pretty much is them, and the Native Americans...yeah, uhm, I think the closest we allow to that now is Polynesia and even they were way more entwined with each other than most Native American groups. Plus, y'know, Iroquois and Shoshone.
 
I don't know how easy it is to roll back

It's super easy. Go to DLC while in-game, uncheck the box for BNW. You can even do this for G&K and Wonders of the Ancient World.

So really, if you find BNW to be a problem, you're maybe out $20.00 to $30.00, which isn't great, but the game itself is completely playable with BNW disabled and without having to reinstall or download anything to disable it. Again, it's in the in-game menu itself under DLC. Very simple.
 
Civ has had 2 expansions since Civ3 ; After Gods and Kings, I was fairly confident a 2nd one is on the way.

Unlike both Civ4 and Civ3; with Steam and a captive audience, I can totally see a 3rd expansion or a series of small scale patches/DLC that substitutes for that.

Back as early as Civ3, I was fairly open to the idea of a long-term update for a Civ game even if Firaxis is moving on to their next project. I'd glady pay money for AI/content updates to my Civ game.

But in the early 2000s, it just wasn't economical to charge $5 or $10 for changes too big to be given out for free, but too small for a retail release. It's now possible, and if a 3rd expansion is unlikely, I would hope they go down this route.

Big 'major changes' patches that fixes issues and upgrades AI released for free, released alongside DLC like a new Civ or new wonders. Actually, prior to G&K , that was what Firaxis did as they slowly improved the core game.
 
I believe the game was pretty much planned like this right from the start and then stuff was cut off - et voila: Expansions. Features of civs that were related to mechanics from the Expansions then had to be given a quick replacement (like France or Arabia ) and also some stuff looks like it was specifically made to suit for e.g. Trade Routes (Glory of Rome). I'm thinking that only the expansion civs in detail weren't already decided/made at that point.

But anyway, game feels pretty good the way it is now (minor tweaks here and there maybe).

My real concern is: How are they ever going to sell a Civ 6? Is anyone going to buy a civ 6 vanilla that comes out without all the features that we have now in Civ 5 BNW? If they go the same route and cut features off for future expansions again, that is... I don't know about you guys, but that will not work for me.
 
I believe the game was pretty much planned like this right from the start and then stuff was cut off - et voila: Expansions. Features of civs that were related to mechanics from the Expansions then had to be given a quick replacement (like France or Arabia ) and also some stuff looks like it was specifically made to suit for e.g. Trade Routes (Glory of Rome). I'm thinking that only the expansion civs in detail weren't already decided/made at that point.

But anyway, game feels pretty good the way it is now (minor tweaks here and there maybe).

My real concern is: How are they ever going to sell a Civ 6? Is anyone going to buy a civ 6 vanilla that comes out without all the features that we have now in Civ 5 BNW? If they go the same route and cut features off for future expansions again, that is... I don't know about you guys, but that will not work for me.

I agree with this in full.

I find it difficult to believe that they weren't already contemplating Religion as a key feature before development of the base-game, given that Civ 4 launched with Religion and that Civ 5 vanilla already included temples (which easily could have been called something else and given a different stock portrait).

As for BNW, I imagine that they also had planned on corporations or some economic expansion of the game, too, from initial development. Gold-yield along rivers and on coasts always seemed a bit stop-gap to me, as under that system you really didn't interact much with other civs for gold other than in lump-sum trades for luxes.

The omission of Religion in the Civ 5 base-game was hard to stomach. Especially so because it wasn't receiving too major of an overhaul when we heard what it would be in G&K: add a faith-resource, throw in some buffs, add several buildings, and wa la, a fairly basic system akin to Civ 4's. Effective, but not anything that needed months and months of planning. The omission of corporations was more acceptable because it had appeared in Beyond the Sword anyways, an expansion.

Why this all matters is: Civ 6. If Civ 6 comes out once again without Religion, that will be the 2nd game in a row where I'll be fairly close to not getting the base game until the first expansion. What led me to get Civ 5 right away was the hub-ub about hexagonal mechanics and the new ranged-unit system. Barring that, I'd probably have waited and played Civ 4 until Civ 5's first expansion.

If anyone at Firaxis happens across this, I hope to convince them of one thing: include virtually all the basic features up front, and sell expansions off the basis of new civs and wonders. I bought the Wonders of the Ancient World and found that perfectly acceptable. I bought every DLC civ, too. And I'd even have been okay buying an expansion that included some never-before-seen feature in civ (space-travel, etc.).

But at the end of the day, not including a better diplomatic system and trade system in Civ 5's base game seemed short-sighted and a bit of an issue, and not including Religion was a massive disappointment. I know companies need to make money, so I have no problem with DLC, even if DLC civs tend to be the better ones (Inca, Korea, Babylon). But there's a significant chance that I will not immediately get Civ 6 if it debuts, once again, without either (or both) interactive, fleshed-out trade or some system of religion.

All that said, Civ 5 finally feels complete. There's now enough interaction in peace-time such that I am not simply clicking through turns very often to get to a key tech/unit (for war) or to finish a cultural victory. BNW I find, thus far, the better of the two expansions, adding competitive projects, trade-routes, world-congress, a new cultural victory, and the most interesting civs I've seen in any of the games as far back as I can remember. These changes bode well.
 
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