T.C.Douglas
Medicare
Removed.
[Tip] Top 5 Best Civilization for Military-based Domination victory
- Thread starter T.C.Douglas
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insaneweasel
Prince
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2010
- Messages
- 329
The only thing the Ottomans really have on non-water maps is the Janissary. Why do they outpace Rome or Greece, with their awesome early UUs? Or the Mongols, with super-fast keshiks and insane healing abilities of the Khan?
I would remove Russians since strategic resources you can generally easily get from CS's. Otherwise they are no special.
I would keep Japan only for MP PvP. otherwise for SP I would remove them since that UA is not that important anyways, Samurai gets little faster to blitz, but thats all.
I would also remove Otomans for SP, but might keep for MP, since naval fighting does not exist in SP due to AI's inability to use units properly in the ocean. You can kill all the map with 4-6 frigates or so.
Germans might be nice if you are lucky enough to grab those barbarians really early, later when there are hardly any barbs left, this bcomes obsolate. Those pikeman may be nice if you rush tech CS and dominate few closest civs. Panzers are obviously nice if you get so far in the game...
I would keep Germany in the list both for MP and SP, but wouldn't say it is something extremely special.
China no doubt is nice with those GG's and Choku's. You can early rush with GG and archers, later upgrade to chokus and conquer more of the world, and if there is still a need, upgrade to 2x hiting rifles.
It is difficult to make a list since it all depends on circumstances. For example, I find India and Iroquis to be one of the best for early rushes. And other civs who have decent early UU's like Greece, Persia, Babylon, Rome and so on... But if you are not going for a fast rush, then the list differs of course.
I would keep Japan only for MP PvP. otherwise for SP I would remove them since that UA is not that important anyways, Samurai gets little faster to blitz, but thats all.
I would also remove Otomans for SP, but might keep for MP, since naval fighting does not exist in SP due to AI's inability to use units properly in the ocean. You can kill all the map with 4-6 frigates or so.
Germans might be nice if you are lucky enough to grab those barbarians really early, later when there are hardly any barbs left, this bcomes obsolate. Those pikeman may be nice if you rush tech CS and dominate few closest civs. Panzers are obviously nice if you get so far in the game...
I would keep Germany in the list both for MP and SP, but wouldn't say it is something extremely special.
China no doubt is nice with those GG's and Choku's. You can early rush with GG and archers, later upgrade to chokus and conquer more of the world, and if there is still a need, upgrade to 2x hiting rifles.
It is difficult to make a list since it all depends on circumstances. For example, I find India and Iroquis to be one of the best for early rushes. And other civs who have decent early UU's like Greece, Persia, Babylon, Rome and so on... But if you are not going for a fast rush, then the list differs of course.
FlowKey
Dark Lord
Nice OP! Good work.
I think we can all agree on China?
insaneweasel is right tho, about Rome and Greece.
I think we can all agree on China?
insaneweasel is right tho, about Rome and Greece.
snarzberry
Emperor
Military-based domination victory huh? My superfluity detector is firing...
but anyhows, I'm not a fan of the list to be honest. I don't think Ottoman, Russia, Japan or Germany are in the top 5 domination victory civs. The top two IMO are Mongolia and Babylon (master of all trades).
but anyhows, I'm not a fan of the list to be honest. I don't think Ottoman, Russia, Japan or Germany are in the top 5 domination victory civs. The top two IMO are Mongolia and Babylon (master of all trades).
T.C.Douglas
Medicare
Well, for the DLC, I don't have. I play with people on MP that don't have the DLC too, and I polled them about it and the majority picked these. I also thought Militarily these are the best choices.
Show no hate, comrades.
Show no hate, comrades.
snarzberry
Emperor
No hate brother, just a friendly disagreement is all. If you're talking about multiplayer it's best to specify in the OP because everyone by default thinks you're talking about SP as it's the most discussed format.
T.C.Douglas
Medicare
Removed
I would remove Russians since strategic resources you can generally easily get from CS's. Otherwise they are no special.Russia is plentiful special. Not only the hog of resources you can get for special units, Ex: For the future, many Robots to clobber enemies. So don't criticize Russia "they are no special". Because even to my standards if this was someone else's exact list, I would agree fully. Not just because I am Russian myself, I have played them throughout many games and won very quickly because of the great units from the large amount of resources.
I agree that in some cases it is nice, but if you get like 30 aliuminium or so from CS's with patronage, then it does not add much. It is not that they are useless, but I mean to say there are better civs IMO. But I might be wrong, I am just a noob anyways.
Optional
Deity
I don't understand. You seem to say you only use naval units against other naval units? What about attacking cities with them? I'm using this all the time. On a small map most cities will end up within reach of coastal tiles, and a navy will come in very handy. Less on normal and bigger maps.
By the way, I'm just considering pangaea or continents maps, not all-land maps or Archipelago, because they're too specific.
I am saying that with 4-6 frigates, later destroyers you can easily clean naval units and take all cities within range on all the map, at least in my experience. Never tried on deity, but up to immortal it works.
But on MP I definetely agree, you might need much more naval units.
(And btw I am not saying that I am correct in any way, I am just giving my opinion which obviously is not perfect and should not be followed in all respects... Just sharing my limited understanding
)Beware of using Janissary when you use ottoman though. I think the march promotion kills off the healing after kill effect. Yet to do more test.
Mongolia should definitely in the list. Though I once played a game against a mongolia without horse...
Mongolia should definitely in the list. Though I once played a game against a mongolia without horse...
From a single-player high difficulty perspective:
Mongolia. Keshiks are overpowered, and the Khan is a nice bonus.
Russia's pretty good, mainly for their start bias -- tundra means few immediate neighbors, so you're more like to be able to choose your first war, rather than having it come to you. They also almost always have Silver and Deer. The UA adds a minor production boost, but more importantly an economic boost -- each 4horse sells for an additional 6 gpt, each 6iron an additional 9 gpt, etc (until you saturate the market, which can happen).
China's pretty solid. So are the Iroquois, and maybe the Aztecs. Japan is nothing special. The Ottomans are pretty bad unless you specify a water-heavy map. Germany is swingy, and might work well on ~Emperor, but I don't feel like I get enough early advantage to make immediate war a good idea on Deity. And if you're not launching straight into a war, then all the UA gets you is added unit maintenance costs. Babylon is probably really good, but I don't have them.
The problem with Greece and Rome is that their UUs simply have higher stats, not promotions that they'll keep through upgrades.
Mongolia. Keshiks are overpowered, and the Khan is a nice bonus.
Russia's pretty good, mainly for their start bias -- tundra means few immediate neighbors, so you're more like to be able to choose your first war, rather than having it come to you. They also almost always have Silver and Deer. The UA adds a minor production boost, but more importantly an economic boost -- each 4horse sells for an additional 6 gpt, each 6iron an additional 9 gpt, etc (until you saturate the market, which can happen).
China's pretty solid. So are the Iroquois, and maybe the Aztecs. Japan is nothing special. The Ottomans are pretty bad unless you specify a water-heavy map. Germany is swingy, and might work well on ~Emperor, but I don't feel like I get enough early advantage to make immediate war a good idea on Deity. And if you're not launching straight into a war, then all the UA gets you is added unit maintenance costs. Babylon is probably really good, but I don't have them.
The problem with Greece and Rome is that their UUs simply have higher stats, not promotions that they'll keep through upgrades.
ShahJahanII
Homesick Alien
blightmoon
Chieftain
- Joined
- May 25, 2011
- Messages
- 75
Top 1 is definitely Mongolia. Keshiks + Civil Service on the way there is just too good.
It's true. Keshiks are the single most broken unit in the entire game. They're probably the only truly overpowered unit.
Martin Alvito
Real men play SMAC
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2010
- Messages
- 2,332
Yeah, Mongolia is the clear winner due to the Keshik.
The top four honorable mention civs are probably Aztec, Babylon, China and Songhai in that order. Upgraded Jaguars are beasts, and Babylon's
bonus from the free GS isn't as good as it used to be due to the changes to the tree. China and Songhai bring quality UUs, UBs and UAs to the table. I know that vexing is partial to Siam, but I'd rather have the extra movement point and the 
if I'm going out on the offensive after Chivalry.
Odd as this may sound, Russia is one of the best peaceful civs in this patch. Bonus strategics are effectively a bonus, and the start bias usually yields an edge start distant enough from other civs to avoid the first round of wars.
The top four honorable mention civs are probably Aztec, Babylon, China and Songhai in that order. Upgraded Jaguars are beasts, and Babylon's
bonus from the free GS isn't as good as it used to be due to the changes to the tree. China and Songhai bring quality UUs, UBs and UAs to the table. I know that vexing is partial to Siam, but I'd rather have the extra movement point and the if I'm going out on the offensive after Chivalry.Odd as this may sound, Russia is one of the best peaceful civs in this patch. Bonus strategics are effectively a
bonus, and the start bias usually yields an edge start distant enough from other civs to avoid the first round of wars.
vexing
knows
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2010
- Messages
- 2,668
I know that vexing is partial to Siam, but I'd rather have the extra movement point and the
i prefer war elephants to muslim cavalry for general use, but i definitely prefer askia to siam for a domination game.
in addition to your list i'd consider arabia for their fake keshiks, plus double luxuries to fund an army is always nice.
Furycrab
King
- Joined
- May 26, 2011
- Messages
- 914
Washington makes playing out the wars so much easier. If you make tactical errors as Washington, you are doing it wrong. However often players just reload if they do a really bad decision, so it's hard to give it it's true value.
I'm partial to Siam just because elephants smash serious face (they crush Longswords and other Cavalry and pikes don't really deal well with them), Camel archers are also pretty ridiculous with scoot and shoot tactics and the gold is easy to convert into more units.
I find China to be really good peacefully. All the bonuses are easier to exploit in defensive wars, while you might slowly edge out someone for territory.
I'm partial to Siam just because elephants smash serious face (they crush Longswords and other Cavalry and pikes don't really deal well with them), Camel archers are also pretty ridiculous with scoot and shoot tactics and the gold is easy to convert into more units.
I find China to be really good peacefully. All the bonuses are easier to exploit in defensive wars, while you might slowly edge out someone for territory.
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