EdwardtheElder
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I'm playing Warlords and can more or less keep up with the AI at Emperor level, but cannot win a Diplomatic Victory. Help needed for me and all other peacemongers / builders.
Diplomatic Victory at Emperor
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EdwardtheElder
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Yes....I can try doing it this way, but I'm trying to do it ultra peacefully - only going to war when declared on, or maybe if my friend asks me to join in against my enemy (even this is dodgy for votes at the end of the day).
I can get the UN ok and even become UN Sec Gen, and even be half way up the points scoreboard but can't get the required votes for a diplomatic win. Can it be done without conquering half the world?
I can get the UN ok and even become UN Sec Gen, and even be half way up the points scoreboard but can't get the required votes for a diplomatic win. Can it be done without conquering half the world?
sure.
But it would require very precise diplomacy, including triangle diplomacy (= bribing one AI on another), running favourite civics and giving in to demands.
EdwardtheElder
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Ok, if it can be done, I'll keep going at it.
I can't seem to do triangle diplomacy as the options I am trying to push are rarely available.
Do you have any recommendations re leader or map size? I have been going for non-agressive leaders with nice early buildings/advantages - Ottomans are a good one I think.
On size though I'm not sure - more opponents gives even greater scope for "you traded with my enemy" and all sorts of other demands coming in.
I can't seem to do triangle diplomacy as the options I am trying to push are rarely available.
Do you have any recommendations re leader or map size? I have been going for non-agressive leaders with nice early buildings/advantages - Ottomans are a good one I think.
On size though I'm not sure - more opponents gives even greater scope for "you traded with my enemy" and all sorts of other demands coming in.
more opponents = trickier diplomacy
one good trait to have is spiritual, so you can adjust your civics as needed and switch to religions as needed.
Ecofarm
Deity
Brennus is spiritual and charismatic (+1 happy, +1happy with monument).
Asoka and Ghandi are spiritual and UB is +2happy (jail - requires constitution)
You might need that happiness to keep population levels high.
Non-spiritual, Mehmed's traits and UB allow for huge populations.
Asoka and Ghandi are spiritual and UB is +2happy (jail - requires constitution)
You might need that happiness to keep population levels high.
Non-spiritual, Mehmed's traits and UB allow for huge populations.
EdwardtheElder
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Well, no one piling in with any startegies, so my conclusion is that it is very difficult.
The best I have achieved so far was being about 30 votes short. So I joined a war against my main opponent, took some of his towns, increased my vote, but then found previous allies were now against me as I was too powerful!
If this is the case, then it really is something Firaxis need to look at because I love the game and its complexity. But if it really is a case of: settle 3 towns, axe rush your first opponent, maceman rush a couple more opponents, be in control by 1200ad, finish the job with tanks/artillery/rifles, game over 1500ad, then it's a bit of a shame and does not fully justify all the detail in the game.
The best I have achieved so far was being about 30 votes short. So I joined a war against my main opponent, took some of his towns, increased my vote, but then found previous allies were now against me as I was too powerful!
If this is the case, then it really is something Firaxis need to look at because I love the game and its complexity. But if it really is a case of: settle 3 towns, axe rush your first opponent, maceman rush a couple more opponents, be in control by 1200ad, finish the job with tanks/artillery/rifles, game over 1500ad, then it's a bit of a shame and does not fully justify all the detail in the game.
civ4 became a bit too warlike imo. winning a game without any big wars and wiping out some opponents is rarely possible. it is though, but mostly for cultural victory as you need some strategic resources for space race - and also need to go to war with competitors often - and of course diplomacy victory most often is just the type of choice if you fall short on domination victory.
EdwardtheElder
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I agree, Thordk. I may go back to my cultural ways.
The other option is turning your peaceful campaign into a space race victory. But when I was in a good position, I could not make it work. Firstly Vicky was way ahead of me and when I sent in spies to sabotage her production (which was successfully done without detection) she, plus her 3 vassals, declared war on me. I had mech infantry, but nowhere near enough to stop the gunships / modern armour / artillery stacks that came against me.
However that game gave me hope for a peaceful victory of sorts.
The other option is turning your peaceful campaign into a space race victory. But when I was in a good position, I could not make it work. Firstly Vicky was way ahead of me and when I sent in spies to sabotage her production (which was successfully done without detection) she, plus her 3 vassals, declared war on me. I had mech infantry, but nowhere near enough to stop the gunships / modern armour / artillery stacks that came against me.
However that game gave me hope for a peaceful victory of sorts.
EdwardtheElder
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Thanks for those links. I have Spiceants "Diplomatic Victory - observations, notes and tips" printed out and do refer to it - though now that Warlords is out I wonder if some things have changed.
By the way, in case others want a taste of how difficult this is, some time ago in one game, Ramses was +12 -0 with me and still voted for my rival!
By the way, in case others want a taste of how difficult this is, some time ago in one game, Ramses was +12 -0 with me and still voted for my rival!
In Diplomatic games its important to know who your opponent is going to be in the elections. Try and form a religious block against your opponent, bribe them into unpopular civics or religions (or out of popular ones). This is where Spiritual is really handy.
Try not to declare yourself on the AI but bribe another to do it and then join in when they ask you to, you get less negative and more positive modifiers.
Also, make sure to always give in to demands by civs whose vote you are likely to be relying on.
It is hard but it is possible.
Try not to declare yourself on the AI but bribe another to do it and then join in when they ask you to, you get less negative and more positive modifiers.
Also, make sure to always give in to demands by civs whose vote you are likely to be relying on.
It is hard but it is possible.
+12 is irrelevant (you need to check how much your rival had!)
ozbenno is right, first thing is to "select" a good rival.
THe best way to do this is to bribe one of the agressive AIs against a weak opponent. This makes the agressive AI bigger (= a good rival candidate) and globally disliked (if the weak AI was in good relations with others).
KMadCandy
giggling permanoob
this thread might have some useful tips. it's for a recent HoF gauntlet, and is more ultra-peaceful than your game. we were playing OCC and handpicked peaceful opponents, deity level, so it doesn't match your game of course. but the goal from turn one was to get diplomatic victory without going to war, and some of the discussion about relations and modifiers might be informative. it's not a strategy guide but i learned from it.
EdwardtheElder
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Thanks Oz/Cabert/KMad.
Some good suggestions which I will have a go at.
Also read half of KMad's recommended thread....phew! Took some notes, but I realise how much I have to learn!
Some good suggestions which I will have a go at.
Also read half of KMad's recommended thread....phew! Took some notes, but I realise how much I have to learn!
pigswill
fly (one day)
Have you read Ori's thread on AI attitudes in the strategy sub forum?
EdwardtheElder
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Yes thanks pigswill, I looked at it a while ago and downloaded it. But it's a real piece of work and I am only just figuring it out. I'll have to print it out to get to grips with it.
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