First Impressions

PhilBowles · Jun 20, 2012

The_Tyrant said:
Happiness is too easy to come by, gold is more difficult to acquire.

Yes, very much so. I haven't even located the trading post in the new tech tree...

Gold more difficult seems about right - it's still a very powerful resource. But playing on Emperor I'm concerned that I can so far basically ignore happiness, and that's without any of the happiness-related religious beliefs.

TravisATWA said:
Well when it came time for me to pick a policy i said "well better read these since they're all different" then i realized they've hardly changed at all. Lib is still the way to go as far as im concerned big time. The only thing they did to it was swap the free settler with the hammer bonus.

That's not an insignificant change considering the value of that early settler and of quick expansion.

Song Rui said:
Mayans seem insane.

Their shrine replacement gives +2 faith AND science which is huge on a building available from learning 1 tech. Also have an archer unit available from turn 1. Not to mention their power which is pretty strong.

I'm playing as the Maya, and I'd agree that the Pyramid is over the top. Having a cheap archer available without any tech is more than enough to make them play distinctly, since they don't need to rush archery, and they have good options going either Mausoleum (gold is harder to come by anyway, making it just that bit more powerful even without free Great People or the Great Prophet spawning system) or religion/culture. Sure give them an incentive to go down the religion route with an upgraded shrine, but 2 science per city is a huge bonus that early in the game - at the very least either make it cost more, or link it to a different technology (since Pottery is a no brainer anyway for the granary), as they did with the archer.

Eagle Pursuit · Jun 20, 2012

Has anyone else noticed that there seems to be a method to the madness about which luxury a city picks to be its "We Love the King" trigger? In Vanilla cities seemed to randomly pick any luxury that you didn't have. In the game I played last night, all my cities picked gems, which was obtainable from America. There were plenty of other possibilities. I didn't have any whales, pearls, or crabs. After gems, my cities all picked Citrus, which Carthage had.

I think that this is now no longer random. Your cities want what the neighbors have. It encourages you to trade or conquer.

PhilBowles · Jun 20, 2012

smallfish said:
smallfish said:

Tech tree is slow. On Emperor, by Turn 280, I should be blazing through Stealth and atomic theory.

Now I'm barely struggling to get to WW2 Infantry, my runaway rival Austria... jeez, you better watch out for her she loves buying up all the city-states and turning them into production cities. Anyways at one point she got fed up with me stealing her superior techs, and she DOWed, and we've been going at it for hundreds of years. She is now in Atomic Era, I am still in Modern.

Click to expand...

Just as long as I have a nuke to drop on someone in 2012 I'll be happy...

e2: Bismarck, of all people, was the one who warned me about Austrian DOW.

Click to expand...

I don't know if he's had a personality change or it's just the effect of positive modifiers, but he was my friend throughout my first game and didn't hesitate to renew DoFs, even when I'd let them lapse a few turns.

e3: I love Ethiopia. Thanks to Austrian runaway with so many cities, I have that 25% combat bonus and its been a godsend so far in dealing with her modern/atomic units and cities.

Click to expand...

AI civs seem to display more variety than before in whether and when they expand in my so far very limited experience.

smallfish said:

Well, I can't say for certain on that given that I just started on my own continent, but that didn't stop runaway Austria from getting fed up with my espionage/denouncement/dunsettleus/dunspyus combo and declaring war. So far I've been able to manage her petty invasions, but there comes a point where I'll be facing mech infs and nukes.

Click to expand...

Maybe Austria's just aggressive. There has been some change - it's no longer predictable that you will be denounced before a war dec, or even given warning that it's coming from the aggressor civ. In my first game no one denounced anybody, but there were three short wars (only one involving me in any active capacity - which I lost). In my second (current) game there haven't been any wars yet, despite Attila's threats and host of red modifiers, and a bunch of denouncements. Also, being branded a warmonger doesn't seem to automatically result in the whole world piling in on you.

e: Austrian Keshiks and Minutemen. On a map without America or Mongolia.

Click to expand...

If they annex city-states, do they still get the CS bonuses? Suggests they grabbed a military CS giving away unique units.

Click to expand...

fat_tonle · Jun 20, 2012

I agree with a lot of what has already been said and as I have feared.... there are too many possibilities to obtain happiness. We need something to offset it. Maybe +3 per luxury. Otherwise move Crabs and Copper to bonus resources. Truffles can be changed to boars. Citrus can be a requirement for Oceanic Naval ships in the Rennassaince era. Things of such.

ShredZ · Jun 20, 2012

Sounds like my game followed suit with Eagles and Randalls.

Took the Celts, started going religion heavy, was 2nd to a pantheon and religion (king difficulty). Things were progressing well, making CS friends and allies very well with all these new quests they give - but then tragedy struck, his name was Alexander.

It's my own fault, I too was having big money problems and thus had just gifted some units to CSs to keep them allied for that extra turn or two, plus I was trying to complete a 'bully this CS for me' quest, and I got bum rushed without much to defend with my units being at the opposite end of my empire.

I also took the papal primacy and sacred rivers bonuses.

On a side note, the game felt smoother, does installing the XP change your resolution or other grafx settings? Also, steams count down on my install started at 1hour23minutes! ffs! I think it went faster than that bc I went and had dinner and when I came back it was done (45mins or so).

PhilBowles · Jun 20, 2012

From these screenshots I like Maria Theresa already, and I haven't met her in game yet.

A Rabid Dopsis · Jun 20, 2012

fat_tonle said:
I agree with a lot of what has already been said and as I have feared.... there are too many possibilities to obtain happiness. We need something to offset it. Maybe +3 per luxury. Otherwise move Crabs and Copper to bonus resources. Truffles can be changed to boars. Citrus can be a requirement for Oceanic Naval ships in the Rennassaince era. Things of such.

Adding more types of luxury resource to the game doesn't increase the number of different ones you see on a particular map. Even in vanilla, you didn't see all luxury resources on a standard map. Changing the new one's wouldn't do anything to change happiness.

fat_tonle · Jun 20, 2012

A Rabid Dopsis said:
Adding more types of luxury resource to the game doesn't increase the number of different ones you see on a particular map. Even in vanilla, you didn't see all luxury resources on a standard map. Changing the new one's wouldn't do anything to change happiness.

Then what's the point of adding more if it only adds different flavor to the game and they aren't all accessible every time?

Seems obvious but really... all types of resources need to be in in some shape or form especially on bigger maps, just so that CS's can grant something unique and what not.

Otherwise, has religion or changes in policies been that much a game changer in happiness? Because I didn't find a ton there although that's only one play through.

smallfish · Jun 20, 2012

PhilBowles said:
Just as long as I have a nuke to drop on someone in 2012 I'll be happy...

Yeah, I think I'll try the Mayans next. They've got a nifty calendar system, I hear.

PhilBowles said:
I don't know if he's had a personality change or it's just the effect of positive modifiers, but he was my friend throughout my first game and didn't hesitate to renew DoFs, even when I'd let them lapse a few turns.

Until I slapped him from the back in a coalition war and took his cities (and then more recently declared war just to nab his capital), he was a pretty swell fellow despite "coveting my lands".

PhilBowles said:
AI civs seem to display more variety than before in whether and when they expand in my so far very limited experience.

One thing I like is that its now the 20th Century, and nobody has yet to settle a spam city on my continent despite there being two relatively untouched deposits of uranium.

PhilBowles said:
Maybe Austria's just aggressive. There has been some change - it's no longer predictable that you will be denounced before a war dec, or even given warning that it's coming from the aggressor civ. In my first game no one denounced anybody, but there were three short wars (only one involving me in any active capacity - which I lost). In my second (current) game there haven't been any wars yet, despite Attila's threats and host of red modifiers, and a bunch of denouncements. Also, being branded a warmonger doesn't seem to automatically result in the whole world piling in on you.

Absolutely.

When I backstabbed my long time friend and ally Carthage, Spain was all Guarded/Hostile towards me for being a warmongering backstabbing menace and having incompatible ideologies, but she eventually mellowed down and even offered me a declaration of friendship. Things were even starting to look better with Carthage... at least until she denounced me before I went on my last warring spree.

I had to decline since I wanted to take her capital, and now I'm not sure if anyone will ever forgive me for being a Hitler. :cry:

PhilBowles said:
If they annex city-states, do they still get the CS bonuses? Suggests they grabbed a military CS giving away unique units.

Apparently they just get their units, their infrastructure and luxuries - free of charge (no rebellion period or need for courthouse). Which was why I saw a lot of Austrian Keshiks and a couple Minutemen too, but only so much.

ShredZ · Jun 20, 2012

I remembered a few more things to ask/ I noticed.

When did scout and warrior get an upgrade to strength, was that this xp or a patch from before?

I was getting 5xp from battles, wasnt it only 2xp before this xp?

Also, I really wasn't happy that Alex used his promotions to heal his units to take my city, but I think I noticed that you don't get full hp, you get 50 ?

Eagle Pursuit · Jun 20, 2012

All units have had their strength increased to go with the new base-100 combat system.

It's still 5xp for melee combat and always has been. It's 2xp for ranged combat.

the Insta-Heal has been changed to 50% rather than full health. I've also seen a barb use it (I think).

Bechhold · Jun 20, 2012

There is now more CS spam than before.

binhthuy71 · Jun 20, 2012

fat_tonle said:
Then what's the point of adding more if it only adds different flavor to the game and they aren't all accessible every time?

Seems obvious but really... all types of resources need to be in in some shape or form especially on bigger maps, just so that CS's can grant something unique and what not.

Otherwise, has religion or changes in policies been that much a game changer in happiness? Because I didn't find a ton there although that's only one play through.

To me, having every resource in every game would be unbalancing because it would substantially diminish the importance of happiness. And, how would you like to play a game with any or all of those civs that have strong advantages in CS aquisition and/or influence? Siam, Greece, and Austria could be in nearly perpetual Golden Ages.

Beliefs in Religion can increase happiness in many ways. There are too many to put into a post. You can look up all of them in the Religion topic in Civilopedia. I would suggest reading through all of the entries in Religion in order to effectively use Beliefs to help you toward your chosen victory condition.

Spreading your religion to CS increases your influence with them thereby making it easier and cheaper to be friends or Allies. CS will often give you a quest to spread your religion to them. Fulfilling that quest with a Missionary or Great Prophet increases your influence with the CS. Note: you do not have to completely convert the CS to your religion - you just have to spread it to them. One Missionary or Great Prophet can fulfill 3 or more of these quests.

Calouste · Jun 20, 2012

Eagle Pursuit said:
Has anyone else noticed that there seems to be a method to the madness about which luxury a city picks to be its "We Love the King" trigger? In Vanilla cities seemed to randomly pick any luxury that you didn't have. In the game I played last night, all my cities picked gems, which was obtainable from America. There were plenty of other possibilities. I didn't have any whales, pearls, or crabs. After gems, my cities all picked Citrus, which Carthage had.

I think that this is now no longer random. Your cities want what the neighbors have. It encourages you to trade or conquer.

I haven't noticed that yet, but at one point my capital actually changed the luxury they wanted without me giving them the previous one (I'm fairly sure about that. I sold my luxuries for cash and didn't get enough influence to ally a city state). That didn't happen in Vanilla.

Randall_Flagg · Jun 20, 2012

I really do not see why people have an issue with happiness the way it is!! I have always hated in CiV 5 that I have to limit my cities!! Right now I do not have to, and should not have too!! i know I will keep game offline until i see real good patch notes!!

I am going to have to assume most people do not build to see how high they can get their population, this has always been a very fun part for me, and one of the mjor reason I hated 5 so much when it came out.

Mango Elephant · Jun 20, 2012

I played on a duel archipelago map with 8 (random) civs and legendary start with Carthage.

I founded Christianity, Arabia founded Islam. (Apparently the AI does have a go-to religion) Half the world was Christian, half was Muslim.

Free harbors plus the pantheon bonus that gives +1 hammer to work boats, six (!) sea resources nearby, and the Colossus. I KILLED that game! Very fun. =)

I don't like how religion doesn't play much of a role in diplomacy, but that's about my only complaint.

Sharku · Jun 20, 2012

My big issue is it seems that cities are now impossible to take without siege units.
Infantry doesn't make a dent.

ShredZ · Jun 20, 2012

Eagle Pursuit said:
All units have had their strength increased to go with the new base-100 combat system.

It's still 5xp for melee combat and always has been. It's 2xp for ranged combat.

the Insta-Heal has been changed to 50% rather than full health. I've also seen a barb use it (I think).

I meant warrior is 8 instead of 6 and scout is 6 instead of 4 ... ?

smallfish · Jun 20, 2012

Sharku said:
My big issue is it seems that cities are now impossible to take without siege units.

As they should be.

When was the last time you heard light infantry taking a well-defended strong point without artillery?

Sharku · Jun 20, 2012

Its called street fighting it happened all the time in WW2.

First Impressions

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