Sandkasten

i have stopped teching in the sandkasten after writing exactly because of this reason:

there are lots of nice alternatives out there we can choose from there on. what it will be, we cant decide right now i guess, cause we have to wait what the next turns bring us in this game:

- can we get some tech trades
- do we need a big army
- do we plan to go to war
- how big is the land we can peacefully settle

there are some nice wonders out there that go really well with spiritual and phil, not only the pantheon or the great library, also the maussoleum of whaterver (longer GAs, really nice when beeing phil and getting lots of GPS) and the shwedagon thingy (all religous civics, phil, theo, free reli, whatever you need) are to mention here, left alone the apo (half priced temples and you get 2hammers in each city for them)

so no idea what will be best after writing, maybe it is aest, maybe its theology, maybe its callendar, or maybe its construction for that catapult wonder:mischief:
 
I do not think theo will be taken any time soon. Though it IS POSSIBLE that Carthage may lightbulb it with their priest.

We COULD get parthenon with aesthetics, but I don't know... not having marble sucks, maybe it's best to skip that one for a while and instead spend the hammers on even more cities. I wonder, are colonies locked out in this game?

Thing is, we need Aesthetics in order to get Literature. I suppose we may be able to trade aesthetics way later.. don't know. We should grow our third city up high, and as soon as rep for mids is in, we could tech through this stuff super fast. In fact, we'd be able to tech pretty decent through Music.

That way we can build the Cistine chapel. Just kidding, but I wouldn't mind the free artist. Thing is, I don't think we'd get much trade value for it.

We need to co-ordinate with Carthage more on what techs to go after, but I don't want to give out too much info on what we are going after next. They have shown that they are not too shy of building wonders, though they did have their reasons.

I hope we don't go along with the plan for 4 cities on our tiny continent anymore.
 
Great job guys with all this number crunching, just wondering, why is it that our cap is currently building our 3rd fast worker?
 
I think we need to focus on military as soon as feasible. I really don't want to just settle the mainland, I want to invade it. We are going to have to deal with barbs and rival civs, so establishing a strong ground force is going to be essential. We should probably prioritize both Animal Husbandry and Iron Working so we can find out what military units we can build. I would lean towards Iron Working first, since we have a couple of spots on our island that look like they could reveal iron.

As far as wonders, I think the only one we should really be considering is The Great Library. We have put ourselves in a bit of a hole with the Oracle in terms of military/expansion, so other wonders should definitely wait until we have our feet under us.
 
i have stopped teching in the sandkasten after writing exactly because of this reason:

there are lots of nice alternatives out there we can choose from there on. what it will be, we cant decide right now i guess, cause we have to wait what the next turns bring us in this game:

- can we get some tech trades
- do we need a big army
- do we plan to go to war
- how big is the land we can peacefully settle

there are some nice wonders out there that go really well with spiritual and phil, not only the pantheon or the great library, also the maussoleum of whaterver (longer GAs, really nice when beeing phil and getting lots of GPS) and the shwedagon thingy (all religous civics, phil, theo, free reli, whatever you need) are to mention here, left alone the apo (half priced temples and you get 2hammers in each city for them)

so no idea what will be best after writing, maybe it is aest, maybe its theology, maybe its callendar, or maybe its construction for that catapult wonder:mischief:

I would really hope that we can tech towards Mathematics and Currency after Writing since those would be the best boost to our research power and Math is also a prerequisite for Construction if we need the catapult wonder. Theology I am a bit less inclined to, although that may be just due to the fact that I view Theology's benefit as the Theocracy civic (not needed now), not the AP.

Aesthetics, of course, leads to Literature so that would be my second option.

I do not think theo will be taken any time soon. Though it IS POSSIBLE that Carthage may lightbulb it with their priest.

We COULD get parthenon with aesthetics, but I don't know... not having marble sucks, maybe it's best to skip that one for a while and instead spend the hammers on even more cities. I wonder, are colonies locked out in this game?

Thing is, we need Aesthetics in order to get Literature. I suppose we may be able to trade aesthetics way later.. don't know. We should grow our third city up high, and as soon as rep for mids is in, we could tech through this stuff super fast. In fact, we'd be able to tech pretty decent through Music.

That way we can build the Cistine chapel. Just kidding, but I wouldn't mind the free artist. Thing is, I don't think we'd get much trade value for it.

We need to co-ordinate with Carthage more on what techs to go after, but I don't want to give out too much info on what we are going after next. They have shown that they are not too shy of building wonders, though they did have their reasons.

I hope we don't go along with the plan for 4 cities on our tiny continent anymore.

First, colonies are "locked out" since vassal states are off. :) Second, you are right in that we need to coordinate our techs with Carthage. But we also need to meet other civilizations to increase our trading opportunities. Finally, we're not staying put on our tiny island. :)


Great job guys with all this number crunching, just wondering, why is it that our cap is currently building our 3rd fast worker?

The third worker is needed to get all the chops into the forge in time so that we can whip the forge and then run the engineer.

I think we need to focus on military as soon as feasible. I really don't want to just settle the mainland, I want to invade it. We are going to have to deal with barbs and rival civs, so establishing a strong ground force is going to be essential. We should probably prioritize both Animal Husbandry and Iron Working so we can find out what military units we can build. I would lean towards Iron Working first, since we have a couple of spots on our island that look like they could reveal iron.

As far as wonders, I think the only one we should really be considering is The Great Library. We have put ourselves in a bit of a hole with the Oracle in terms of military/expansion, so other wonders should definitely wait until we have our feet under us.

I would say that Animal Husbandry is more important than Iron Working right now (considering the cirumstances) because (1) it allows us to improve AH resources, (2) it reveals horses, which are more mobile than swordsmen and are better vs axemen, (3) there is no jungle that we can see, and (4) AH is cheaper than Iron Working. In the last demogame, Team Saturn got Iron Working in a trade so that's an option as well with Carthage.


Interesting stuff going on! :)
 
I was going to say, if we can trade Aesthetics for IW, etc. then teching Aesthetics really is teching ironworking, except with other benefits :p The only problem is Carthage may get sneaky if the turn they discover it, they realize there are some really good iron spots near us. Then they may make up an excuse to hold onto it for a bit longer while they steal those spots.
 
I did quite a bit of thinking tonight on our tech lines. Assuming it takes carthage a lot of turns to finish off alphabet, we might as well tech Hunting, AH, and then WRITING for full 20% bonuses.

After that, we should go directly to Aesthetics --> Literature.

I have debated on Snaats suggetion for the Calendar wonder, and despite calendar is very useful to us, that wonder is 450 frieken hammers. And it doesn't really give us as much bonus as it does for non-spiritual civs. I'd rather bulb theo, and tech paper to get the jump on UoS for just 100 hammers more, especially with all the religious buildings' we'd plan. Hmm...

Anyhow, our NEW central hammer heavy city (if we go that route) would get Granary first, then forge. Then works on Parthenon as soon as Aesthetics is in, then when Literature is in, we pause Parth, and chop TGL very fast. Then we can resume Parth, and then put the NE in there as well. Very nice synergy.

After Lit, we go Drama, since we need it not only to benefit from our monopoly resources, but 20% discount on Drama for our Cathedrals and our FREE GA.

Then we either bulb theo with a priest, or research it manually and go for the AP...

I think it's best for one POWERHOUSE city in the center of our continent to work on these wonders, so we can maximize our capital and other city for our races to grab land everywhere else.
 
...would get Granary first, then forge. Then works on Parthenon as soon as Aesthetics is in, then when Literature is in, we pause Parth, and chop TGL very fast. Then we can resume Parth, and then put the NE in there as well....

then some neigbouring civ builds this annoying catapult wonder and we fight them throwing pillars at them. i simply want to repeat that its way to early do go into a detailled strat what we will do after writing while knowing more or less nothing of the land and knowing only one neighbour:D

we even havent agreed, where our next city will go (i for my part would set up the next city on the central island...)
 
Well, we need at least sailing to do that. So, we could go sailing right after mono, but during that time we can get one settler to get a production power-house up on OUR continent. As soon as our galley is online we ship two warriors in it and unload so they can scout around while our galley returns to pick up the next settler.
 
Well, we need at least sailing to do that. So, we could go sailing right after mono, but during that time we can get one settler to get a production power-house up on OUR continent. As soon as our galley is online we ship two warriors in it and unload so they can scout around while our galley returns to pick up the next settler.

this is exactly what i did in miy simulation:)

only the settler part doesnt work like you have planned:

we have our next settler (city 3) finished in time when the galley returns from shipping the 2 warriors over, which will be in turn 65. and i already pop2 whipped the galley and settler, so i dont see much room for speeding things up here...

what we can think of, is delaying the forge in capital a little bit and using overflow in a second workboat instead (the first workboat we whip in city 2 as soon as it grows to pop 3)

-> i just found a simple way to get the 2. workboat out same turn as the first one without loosing anything:

in turn 53 we whip the granary in the capital (the turn fishing is in)
in turn 54 we put the overflow into a workboat and
in turnn 57 we whip the workboat in city 2 and we finish the workboat in capital

-> we can scout in both directions and are able to catch up a little in scouting on our neighbours

then back to the plan, as fast as possible to size 4 building a forge (juggling gems and farmed dye) start on settler, switch to galley once sailing is in, whip galley, overflow into forge and regrow to 4, whip settler. the settler should be ready same turn as in my first simulation but we have 2 workboats out scouting.

-> our expansion goal must be 7-8 cities in turn 80, 3-4 on our island, 4 on the central continent and a decent military (building while regrowing with whip overflow). having the mids, a religion and soon the shrine via the GP we should be set up fine then
 
@obsolete: You're ahead in the poll for new primary turn player, but we don't have a statement from you whether you would accept the position or not. I tried prodding you by PM but your inbox is full. Could you please comment on the matter?

Poll is here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=368264
 
Hmm! Guess it's all that fan mail filled up the inbox. Guess I'll go and delete them this evening if I can... Oh yea, and all the demerit points the moderators sent me hurts too.
 
I lost count. Is there a way to check up somewhere what level I'm currently at? Usually I get one or two for violating some silly rule I never knew about. Then the second I mention that I got a demerit, I get more demerits because there is a forum rule that claims you can not discuss demerits on the forum!

And no, I am NOT MAKING THIS UP!
 
I lost count. Is there a way to check up somewhere what level I'm currently at? Usually I get one or two for violating some silly rule I never knew about. Then the second I mention that I got a demerit, I get more demerits because there is a forum rule that claims you can not discuss demerits on the forum!

And no, I am NOT MAKING THIS UP!

The first rule of demerit club is? :)
 
58:
sailing in research on ah or writing

No, there will be researching of writing. I talked to provolution, he is going to give us writing when they have alphabet around T65. He suggested iron working for us to go after. I am not surprised. They want to get their UB up asap. I think it's a good plan. Let's go after IW after sailing, as it will take around 10 turns, and lets us see very quick where the hell those precious iron deposits are. We may have one even in our own home lands (I'm becoming sure of this now).

As Carthage completes whatever small techs after alpha like AH, etc, they can gift them to us as they come in.

After IW, we COULD go after TGL..... even, if by some chance we miss TGL, we DO WANT NE.... and HE as well later on.

So....

Still some other options out there...
 
Alright, without Drama we lose half the power of our happy resource. But to get Drama we need Aesthetics....

But.. if we go aesthetics obviously Literature is one of the main next targets...

I think it's best if after sailing we go IronWorking.... that will be done right around the time we get writing from Carthage. Then we go Aesthetics --> Lit --> Drama while building TGL and/or NE.

This then opens up Philo... and can let us get Music at full discounts for cathedral and FREE GA (not sure about that one just yet)...
 
Obs, can you explain the reason for wanting to go after iron working? I mean normally it's a very important tech which is a high priority (especially when you have neither copper nor horses ;) ) but in this case, aside from quatronia wanting to trade for it with us, I don't see much short term use for it. I mean, the chances of there being iron on the home island are almost zilch, we have no jungle in sight (not even on the other landmass!) and it doesn't lead to any techs which we need any time soon. Why don't we just go after something which is more important in the short term whether it be monarchy, aesth, maths or whatever?
Is provolution really just going to give us writing? Really? (or wait is it like part of the trade to get the most of our beakers? even so, delaying getting our library up may not be a good idea and couldn't we get something else instead?)
 
I think Iron Working is important because we desperately need a strat resource, preferably before we start settling the mainland. We are fine with wooden clubs on our home island, but we need something more substantial for the mainland.

If we miss out on Horses, we definitely need to prioritize Iron Working. Even if there is no Iron at home, we can locate it on the mainland.

If there is no iron nearby, we need to seriously consider Archery->Feudalism
 
i can live with delaying writing (actually i dont care right now if we research it or trade it), but after fishing+ sailing, we the should go immediately after AH. everything else feels simply wrong. AH is cheap and it might show us horses. after AH, we can (maybe) consider going for iron, but my advice would be the following:

-> my 2 cents:

switch off research after AH. wait till we know all neighbours (our WBs will be out at that time and scouting). check trades. get writing via trade. get libs. research with libs and specialists at 100%. im really really sure that with offering MC all around we can get at least 4 techs;) (including math, IW, monarchy, alpha (+writing))

so no stress, relax, we are in the best position right now. all other nations have to research their first big tech to trade around, we already have it (and we even might lay hands on alpha, to go on the trading offense). all we have to do is lean back, scout around with our WBs and sell what we have to offer:p
 
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