First Game on Diety
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danaphanous
religious fanatic
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Congrats on your first Deity victory! 
Is that standard/standard? I would say if you can bring that time down to T275 you'll rarely lose the space race. Sometimes Deity AI can finish that early if you get an unlucky game!
Care to share some pics?
Is that standard/standard? I would say if you can bring that time down to T275 you'll rarely lose the space race. Sometimes Deity AI can finish that early if you get an unlucky game!
Care to share some pics?
danaphanous
religious fanatic
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^^^
From my experience this is only possible with a REALLY good start but yes, quite the challenge! I wouldn't put it up as a general standard though.
From my experience this is only possible with a REALLY good start but yes, quite the challenge! I wouldn't put it up as a general standard though.
yung.carl.jung
Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious
It all comes down to maps. Sub T200 Dom isn't hard if you're playing Great Plains, but it's really hard when there is a Pangea with lots of choke points, mountains, forest and jungle.
The same goes for getting a sub T200 Science Victory. With a perfect map and reloading it is definitely doable, but if you are playing by HOF rules you simply cannot do it on every map. That is my belief, anyway.
Sometimes you get Tundra starts, sometimes you get marshland starts with trapping ressources, sometimes desert starts with barely any river tiles and hills. Maybe a great player could win a sub T200 space race on a map like that, but I highly doubt it. So if you are the kind of player that will just roll a map and straight play it, T200 just won't be possible sometimes.
As danaphonous already said, if you regularily win by T270 that means you can beat the Deity AI on a regular basis, that's a good benchmark.
Does this mean you are "good" at Civ? Well, only 2% of the player basis have ever won a game above Emperor, so I figure this question is pretty irrelevant
If you really want to test your "expertise" in this game then I'd say multiplayer with the NQ Group is much more challenging than Deity ever will, though some mods like Acken's make absolute Deity hell, too.
The same goes for getting a sub T200 Science Victory. With a perfect map and reloading it is definitely doable, but if you are playing by HOF rules you simply cannot do it on every map. That is my belief, anyway.
Sometimes you get Tundra starts, sometimes you get marshland starts with trapping ressources, sometimes desert starts with barely any river tiles and hills. Maybe a great player could win a sub T200 space race on a map like that, but I highly doubt it. So if you are the kind of player that will just roll a map and straight play it, T200 just won't be possible sometimes.
As danaphonous already said, if you regularily win by T270 that means you can beat the Deity AI on a regular basis, that's a good benchmark.
Does this mean you are "good" at Civ? Well, only 2% of the player basis have ever won a game above Emperor, so I figure this question is pretty irrelevant
If you really want to test your "expertise" in this game then I'd say multiplayer with the NQ Group is much more challenging than Deity ever will, though some mods like Acken's make absolute Deity hell, too.I always use small continents plus.
I'd like to try something else BUT....so many choices.
A few notes and Q's:
1) In a sense, it actually is easier than at lower levels. Why? Because on diety you have NO chance at building wonders, waging dumb wars, or controlling the WC.
-On lower levels, I get hooked or side tracked with land grabbing, controlling the ideology for the WC, and that other stuff.
-Here, my focus was just get those four cities, fortify the borders with units to prevent being attacked, and build science. Tunnel vision.
-Anybody else find it this way?
2) To me, science seems fairly easy while winning by culture or diplomacy would seem MUCH harder (I never have done domination).
-See with science, you can be an isolationist, staying out of international affairs (like the WC, allying many CS, World Fairs, and Wonders of the World).
But with culture....YOU have to worry it would seem about your own religion, ideology, WC, CS, and wonders.
Am I right? How the heck can you win doing culture when you can't build those wonders or control the WC?
Likewise with diplomacy.
I'd like to try something else BUT....so many choices.
A few notes and Q's:
1) In a sense, it actually is easier than at lower levels. Why? Because on diety you have NO chance at building wonders, waging dumb wars, or controlling the WC.
-On lower levels, I get hooked or side tracked with land grabbing, controlling the ideology for the WC, and that other stuff.
-Here, my focus was just get those four cities, fortify the borders with units to prevent being attacked, and build science. Tunnel vision.
-Anybody else find it this way?
2) To me, science seems fairly easy while winning by culture or diplomacy would seem MUCH harder (I never have done domination).
-See with science, you can be an isolationist, staying out of international affairs (like the WC, allying many CS, World Fairs, and Wonders of the World).
But with culture....YOU have to worry it would seem about your own religion, ideology, WC, CS, and wonders.
Am I right? How the heck can you win doing culture when you can't build those wonders or control the WC?
Likewise with diplomacy.
My goal is to win at all the levels, all the methods, THEN do Acken's.Does this mean you are "good" at Civ? Well, only 2% of the player basis have ever won a game above Emperor, so I figure this question is pretty irrelevant
Sound good?
Standard culture is almost like a science game. You rush Archaeology, Radio, Refrigeration, Internet, and optional Radar. You still need to focus on science base game since the earlier you win, the easier it is. But since it requires far fewer tech to win culture, you can win it easily before you can win a SV if you have enough cities/wonders. The roadblock to fast culture win is usually getting the important Renaissance wonders as some of the deity AI will compete for them. When you have maximum tourism, try to time winning International Games and buy/build Great Musicians to perform concert tours on culture leaders.
Diplomatic is all about getting to Information era quickly so that the WL vote can be triggered, and getting Globalization for an extra 5 votes. You focus on gold a little bit more and it's pretty easy to buy all the CS near the end if you haven't done so earlier. Whether the AI hates you or not doesn't matter since it doesn't actually affect winning. However you want to avoid being at war with AI that has CS ally because of peace blocking.
On difficulty lower than Immortal, there is another way to win CV, by spamming cities, taking Piety Reformation Sacred Sites, and getting 2 religious building as following beliefs. You can win before entering Modern era since AI culture is pretty bad. It is extremely hard to win on deity this way, as you would need an insane number of cities to catch AI culture.
Diplomatic is all about getting to Information era quickly so that the WL vote can be triggered, and getting Globalization for an extra 5 votes. You focus on gold a little bit more and it's pretty easy to buy all the CS near the end if you haven't done so earlier. Whether the AI hates you or not doesn't matter since it doesn't actually affect winning. However you want to avoid being at war with AI that has CS ally because of peace blocking.
On difficulty lower than Immortal, there is another way to win CV, by spamming cities, taking Piety Reformation Sacred Sites, and getting 2 religious building as following beliefs. You can win before entering Modern era since AI culture is pretty bad. It is extremely hard to win on deity this way, as you would need an insane number of cities to catch AI culture.
danaphanous
religious fanatic
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yes I was referring to science with my benchmarks.
If we're talking finish data: Conquest is the quickest, culture debateably second quickest partly because you can mix in some conquest to win quicker, then science/diplo. I'm not sure which is quicker as there is the 30-turn WL vote delay and a good science player is bulbing scientists and launching in approximately the same window. I rarely do diplo though as it feels sort of lackluster. Basically just gold and the AI don't spend 1000 gold on CS so you have an unnatural advantage.
If we're talking finish data: Conquest is the quickest, culture debateably second quickest partly because you can mix in some conquest to win quicker, then science/diplo. I'm not sure which is quicker as there is the 30-turn WL vote delay and a good science player is bulbing scientists and launching in approximately the same window. I rarely do diplo though as it feels sort of lackluster. Basically just gold and the AI don't spend 1000 gold on CS so you have an unnatural advantage.
Acken
Deity
It means its too easy if you ask me 
. But compared to most players I guess you're good !
Next step can also be to participate in challenges with other players.
. But compared to most players I guess you're good !Next step can also be to participate in challenges with other players.
Acken
Deity
You can. If your science is good enough reaching Internet and Archaeology fast enough is more important.
stormtrooper412
Peacemongering Turtlesaur
It's a bit harder but yes, all you need is a lot of Archaeology and a quick enough Internet
Well, it is not correct to say that any VC is easier at higher difficulty levels. There are few things that the player can do at higher difficulty levels (e.g., trade routes for science, lump sum gold trades) but even if an SV might be fewer turns -- that does not imply the game was easier by any means!
How is the WC all that important for a CV?
I very much struggle with CV at Deity. I only have done peaceful CV a couple times, but those wins are 100% correlated with my catching Sistine Chapel. None of the others WW matter. (But picking up SOH and CN Tower is easy.) I think peaceful CV without SC would be pretty straightforward -- except that one cannot afford an AI to have it! Like ST wrote, faster Internet is the biggest thing.
Actually, there are quite a number of World Congress proposals that can be very helpful to a culture victory (some require hotels, airports and NVC to convert culture to tourism):
- World Religion -- +50% tourism boost for Holy City
- Arts Funding -- +33% boost to GPP for Great Artists, Writers, and Musicians
- Cultural Heritage Sites -- +3 Culture for each World Wonder
- Natural Heritage Sites -- +5 Culture for Natural Wonders
- Historical Monuments -- +4 Culture from Landmarks and +2 Culture from other Great Person tile improvements
- International Games -- +100% Tourism output for 20 turns
- World Ideology -- chosen Ideology essentially exerts more pressure over Civs of differing Ideologies
EthelredFTL
Warlord
Congrats! One of these days I hope to get to your level
Also for CV, I want to mention using diplomats for extra pressure. That was something I overlooked for quite a while. It is a nice boost, and something the player has good control over.
The AIs love most of those proposals. So almost every game I see Arts Funding, Cultural Heritage Sites, and Historical Monuments pass.
It seems like Cultural Heritage Sites helps the AI more than the player, but okay.
The AIs don’t seem to much like Natural Heritage Sites, but the player only has one of those half the time.
Controlling timing of IG can really smooth things out. But winning IG (and WF) is more important than controlling their timing.
If you do have the WC locked up, then WI and especially WR are very nice. I just don’t think they are as important as a fast Internet. Do agree on that point?
All this is underscore the broad challenge of the CV. You need strong science (for Internet), strong hammers (for all those culture buildings), strong culture (duh), strong religion (for the culture buffs from faith buildings, and buying all the GP at the end), and then as much CS control as you can manage (keeping cultural CS allied being the first priority).
Locking up WC tight like it is a DiploVC (and you need WC locked up for WR), as compared to everything else one must do for a peaceful CV, seems like icing on the cake!
Okay, I should have been more clear. It seems to me that, compared to everything else one must do for a peaceful CV, that control of the WC is a lower priority.
The AIs love most of those proposals. So almost every game I see Arts Funding, Cultural Heritage Sites, and Historical Monuments pass.
It seems like Cultural Heritage Sites helps the AI more than the player, but okay.
The AIs don’t seem to much like Natural Heritage Sites, but the player only has one of those half the time.
Controlling timing of IG can really smooth things out. But winning IG (and WF) is more important than controlling their timing.
If you do have the WC locked up, then WI and especially WR are very nice. I just don’t think they are as important as a fast Internet. Do agree on that point?
All this is underscore the broad challenge of the CV. You need strong science (for Internet), strong hammers (for all those culture buildings), strong culture (duh), strong religion (for the culture buffs from faith buildings, and buying all the GP at the end), and then as much CS control as you can manage (keeping cultural CS allied being the first priority).
Locking up WC tight like it is a DiploVC (and you need WC locked up for WR), as compared to everything else one must do for a peaceful CV, seems like icing on the cake!
Can you win a CV without expending any effort to control the WC (including without ever submitting or voting in favor of any CV-relevant WC proposal)? Absolutely. Easiest example is a rapid Sacred Sites spam game (which should be over by about the time the first WC convenes), but there are also domination culture victories (kill civs whose culture outstrips yours and leave in place the cultural laggards to be dominated with tourism) and science-focused CVs (bulb your way to the Internet), such as you describe.
On the other hand, you can also win a CV by focusing all of your energy on the WC and CS alliances (and votes), using World Religion, diplomats, IG and the other benefits of these WC proposals to win a CV long before you tech to the Internet. Is it more "efficient" (faster finish, fewer risk elements that are outside your control) than the other approaches? Maybe, maybe not, but it makes for a fun and engaging game -- and who wants to play the same game, the same way, every time? Give it a spin!
On the other hand, you can also win a CV by focusing all of your energy on the WC and CS alliances (and votes), using World Religion, diplomats, IG and the other benefits of these WC proposals to win a CV long before you tech to the Internet. Is it more "efficient" (faster finish, fewer risk elements that are outside your control) than the other approaches? Maybe, maybe not, but it makes for a fun and engaging game -- and who wants to play the same game, the same way, every time? Give it a spin!
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