[Religion and Revolution]: Mod Development

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I agree with a Slaves feature, but would rather have this happen through an Africa port you can visit, instead of being sold to you by a King at random. But I guess it's ok if an Africa port can be added later. I do like the native war prisoners you made though, which seems realistic.
I'm also concerned that if adding too many more diplo dialogs, they might seem to be interrupting the player too frequently or repetitively at random times. Sometimes, some of them happen again and again when you don't want what they're asking about. Can it be possible to make sure each type of diplo event won't happen more than once within 50-100 turns; or maybe instead add the option "Don't ask me again" like with some of the other popups?
 
I would prefer "Don't ask me again" or combined: "Don't ask me again the next 20 or 30 Rounds".... :) - But I don't know if this would be possible.

50-100 Rounds seems to be a little to much for me...
 
I agree with a Slaves feature, but would rather have this happen through an Africa port you can visit, instead of being sold to you by a King at random.

This feature is only a temporary solution, because it might take quite some time until we finally add Africa.
It would simply be a little strange if we introduce Native Slaves but not introduce African Slaves for Release 1. :dunno:

I'm also concerned that if adding too many more diplo dialogs, they might seem to be interrupting the player too frequently or repetitively at random times.

All of them can be balanced in XML to appear less often. :)

I would prefer "Don't ask me again" or combined: "Don't ask me again the next 20 or 30 Rounds".... :) - But I don't know if this would be possible.

I will probably simply implement another balancing variable "MIN_ROUNDS_BETWEEN_REAPPEARANCE" for each DLL-Diplo-Event. :thumbsup:

Telling King or Natives "Don't offer me this deal again for 30 years." is simply very strange to me. :dunno:
 
@team:

New revision available in SVN. :)

It contains:

1. New feature African Slaves (DLL-Diplo-Event as presented)

2. Timers (for each DLL-Diplo-Event) that ensure, that the same DLL-Diplo-Event does not appear to soon again after it has recently appeared.
(Balancing in GlobalDefinesAlt.xml)

3. Improvements to sizes of our new Units (maps and Europe- and CityScreen)

-------------

Please get complete new revision. :thumbsup:
 
@team:

I have implemented a tiny new addition to our mod. :)
(Due to lack of time today to work on something big.)

The Fluyt got graphics that better fit historically. (see here)

Comment:

The graphics implemented by Firaxis seem to have been originally intended for an East-Indiaman but later on used for the Fluyt.
(see naming of the folder)

They somehow never fitted to the Fluyt to my opinion.
Simply put the ships Caraval, Fluyt, Carrack and Merchantman from TAC next to each other and you will see what I mean. :)
(The Fluyt was much larger and better looking than the comparable ships.)

Since the graphics of the Fluyt itself (and also the UnitArtStyles which melcher had created) are really great however,
I used them for a new ship:

Corvette

The Corvette is an excellent escort for your merchant ships and also a very good choice for hunting down Privateers.
It is however no real match for Frigates, SOLs, and Man-O-Wars and it also cannot bombard cities.

I have attached Screenshots of the Fluyt, the Corvette and an overview of all our current 15 ships.

Hope you like it. :)
(It is uploaded to SVN.)

@Schmiddie: Thanks again for the EuropeScreen-graphics for the new Fluyt. :goodjob:
 

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Well done :goodjob:

Thanks. :)

I am working on adapting MultipleYieldsProduced/Consumed to our mod.

But it is a little tricky to do so, since there are several conflicts.
(For example with all the new messages about economy I had introduced for TAC and several AI improvements koma has done.)

Also, I can currently work on modding Religion and Revolution only a few hours a day, since I am simply very busy with real life.

So I will need some time to finish (and improve) this. :)
 
@team:

I have a first Screenshot of our MYCP. :)
(I am still working on it ...)

Basically I am using Aymericks code to program our own variant.

I have already finished Multiple Yields Consumed in Buildings:
A Dyers consumes Cloth and Indigo to produce Coloured Cloth. (Screenshot 1)

I have also finished Multiple Yields Produced in Buildings:
Butcher consumes Sheep to produce Wool and Food. (Screenshot 2)

Multiple Yields Produced on Plots is not yet working as I want it to ...
(For Profession Hunter for example.)
 

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how close is this to playable and when can i start playing it? There are so many file threads for this that i am just confused about what to download, where to put it etc. I hate to sound critical but this fact alone has always kept me away until now.

However if its playable, and it can be "made easy" to download, install and play then i will play. There is just to much here for me NOT to play.
 
how close is this to playable and when can i start playing it ?

The mod is not publically available yet, sorry.
We will have a big announcement, once we release. :thumbsup:
 
I've just decided to stop playing civ4col (both vanilla and existing mods) until r&r becomes available. The concept discussions here are too promising...


The mod is not publically available yet, sorry.
Would it be possible to allow read-only access to the svn for everybody? I'd like to have a look at the current state (even if I only end up browsing the in-game concepts library).

We will have a big announcement, once we release. :thumbsup:
I'd like to subscribe to this announcement. However, technically, this appears to be difficult as you haven't reserved a thread in the mod files subfolder. Is there any feed to which the announcement will be posted to?
 
I've just decided to stop playing civ4col (both vanilla and existing mods) until r&r becomes available.

Just go ahead an play other mods until then. :thumbsup:

Playing TAC for example will make it easier to understand our mod.
(We are based on TAC but have heavily expanded and improved it.)

The concept discussions here are too promising...

Thanks. :)
We have really put enormous efforts into this.

In our Overview you can see what we have already done.
(see Implemented and in Testing)

And here is a short list of our open todos for our Release 1.

Would it be possible to allow read-only access to the svn for everybody ?

No, sorry. :nono:

Main reasons:

1. We contain unpublished things from current TAC development.
2. Discussions about our unbalanced work with community, would currently only slow us down.

I'd like to subscribe to this announcement.
Is there any feed to which the announcement will be posted to?

We will have an announcement in the Civ4Col - Mods and Files section.
 
In our Overview you can see what we have already done.

I've just gone through the complete list of posts regarding the implemented/planned features.
The amount of energy and work which is going into this mod is absolutely amazing!

I'm looking forward to the announcement.

BTW: After 20+ games in TAC 2.02d (and knowing what is planned in r&r), I will really refrain from playing civ4col in the meantime...
 
@team:

I have finished the last part of MYCP:
Multiple Yields Produced on Plot

Some explanations to this:
(I will try to explain with example Hunter, which produces Fur and small amount of Food.)

1. It was very important for me to not destroy balancing of Professions Farmer and Fisher compared to Hunter and Seals Hunter.

Thus Hunter and Sealshunter will produce max 50% of Food compared to the amount of Fur they produce.

Otherwise nobody would have used Farmers anymore ...

So in the beginning (when you have small cities) you will probably be able to keep up a small population with Hunters,
but later on you will need to switch to Farmers or even Ranching Cattle/Sheep.

With Hunters, you will now also be able to have at least a decent population in Thundra regions where Farming is almost impossible.

Natives will of course also use Hunting for example.
Thus they will probably have slightly larger population.

2. It was also extremely important to me, to have clearly separated Specialists.

e.g. Farmers will not give Bonus on Food, when in Profession Hunter.

----------------

General Comments about our MYCP:

Although I have adapted some of Aymericks old code, our solution is very specific and optimized for this mod.
(Any modder trying to adapt MYCP for his own mod should probably better adapt Aymericks solution.)

I have reduced Aymericks generalistic approach of n yields produced / consumed to a new approach with use cases which we really have:

A) 2 Yields Consumed / 1 Produced --> e.g. Dying of Cloth to Coloured Cloth
B) 1 Yield Consumed / 2 Produced --> e.g. Butchering Cattle for Hides and Food
C) 2 Yields Produced on Plot --> e.g. Hunting (Fur and Food)

AI should know quite well how to handle our MYCP. :)

Natives will of course also use Hunting for example.
Thus they will probably have slightly larger population. :)

This (base-)feature is really very big considering code changes and also quite complex.

Without Aymericks work on this, I would have needed much much longer to implement this.
Aymerick did a fantastic job with his modcomp. :goodjob:

I will upload in a few minutes to SVN. :thumbsup:

Edit:

It is uploaded to SVN.
Would be great if somebody could do a basic test, to ensure that I didn't forget to upload anything. :thumbsup:
 

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Both TAC and the current discussions for R&R lack three concepts / mechanisms that were extremely important during the colonization of the americas.

In the following, I present each of these. This also includes reasoning why and how they could be turned into enjoyable / interesting game concepts.

I post this list to R&R as I think this is the most suitable place for discussion (TAC being in the finalization phase). Please feel free to do with these ideas whatever you want (implementing for some release or putting them on the out of scope list).

Conflict between Indian tribes

History: There have been animosities or even wars between Indian tribes before the European landed in America. Exploiting this was a prerequisite for succeeding in the new world. For example, Cortes would have never taken Tenochtitlan if it hadn't exploited the Aztec's rivalry with the Tlaxcallan. Or think of French diplomacy assisting several Indian tribes against the Iroquois.

Why is this an interesting game mechanic? Getting known the friends and foes of neighboring tribes becomes essential for survival and expansion. In addition, the decision which Indians to support (eg., by selling weapons) at which point in time becomes more interesting (as this isn't necessarily directed against other Europeans any more). Thus, dealing with Indians at the beginning would not only aim at trading benefits but also at ensuring no tribe grows too strong and at exploiting opportunities whenever they arise.

Modeling options: I'm not so sure about these. Relationships among Indians could start at an arbitrary non-zero number. Indians could ambush other tribes or even declare war and take their cities. As more energy will be directed to struggle among Indians, they would have to start in larger numbers.

European Diseases

History: Most Indians died of Eurasian diseases (smallpox...). The effect was not only to drastically reduce the number of Indians. In addition, the difficulty of colonizing America has greatly varied - ranging from very difficult (it took the Spaniards 20 years to expand beyond Hispanola) to somehow easier (when some parts of land became deserted).

Why is this an interesting game mechanic? I think the time-variance is the most interesting part of it. At the beginning, just surviving in an environment of overwhelming Indian numbers is a real challenge. When the disease hits the native population, the decision how and when to react on / exploit this would be an interesting decision. The only issue I see here is whether such amoral concept should be put into the game. But on the other hand, slaughtering Indians and sacking their villages is already in - which is even worse.

Modeling options: An implementation could be similar to the one of Col4's mod "Rhye's and Fall of Civilizations". The disease event is triggered by first contact (on a tribe by tribe basis). This lasts for several turns - in each turn damaging units (and having a chance of diminishing city population if I remember correctly). Afterwards the tribe is immune. Probably, it would make sense to allow for further tribe-to-tribe dissemination of the disease if an already infected (or immune) tribe's unit comes close to another (not yet) infected tribe.

Intertwined European Markets

History: Much trade occurred in Europe between colonial powers. That's why the availability of new world goods in one country also affected other countries. For example, Potosi silver has led to silver inflation throughout Europe (but on a lower scale than Spain of course).

Why is this an interesting game mechanic? Imagine Spain finds and explores a silver mine 20 turns before I do. My expectation would be that the price of silver in Europe has dropped before I'm able to begin to sell it. If this was the case (currently afaik it is not (also true for vanilla)), I would care much more about what my opponents are currently producing. Taken further, I would even want to deny specific ressources to my opponents in order to get better prizes for them in Europe. Or, as another example, imagine two opponents engage in a war and heavily buy weapons in Europe. Then, I'd love to see an increased weapons price also in my European harbor. Both cases increase the dependency and interaction with the opponents which would be beneficial to the game.

Modeling options: One possible option: If opponents buy/sell anything in Europe this also affects one's own European prices as if one had bought/sold a portion (the half(?)) of that quantity by himself. Probably this would have to be balanced by decreasing price sensitivity.
 
Conflict between Indian tribes
...

There are conflicts / wars between Natives already. ;)
(However, they are relatively rare.)

These can also be influenced by Diplomacy and with Diplomacy Advisor Screen you will also see which wars between Natives are currently going on.

European Diseases
...

There are already (rare) events about diseases.

But I am really against creating a "Disease Feature against Natives" because of balancing reasons.

I don't want to further weaken Natives.
This would really ruin my personal game fun.

Intertwined European Markets
...

It was already discussed to implement some correlation between European Markets.
It is very likely that we will do something here, but the details are not clear yet. :)

A deeper analysis of possible implentations and consequences (for balancing and game fun) is still necessary.
Also effects on some other possible future features like "Several European Ports" must be considered ...
 
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