Chopping Forests

If the deer forest a flat plains tile, you can chop the forst for free production, since base forest yeld and plains tile yield are both 1 food and 1 hammer.
 
^Thanks for that tip Browd! I inferred the game mechanic from only looking at forested-deer-on-grassland or forested-deer-on-tundra and never thought to double check for that forested-deer-on-plains might be different.

...chopping before you make the camp/plantation makes sense.

For deer/truffle on flat plains (or hill, but I am not sure I have ever seen that), chop after making the camp. For plantation, you have no choice but to chop first, and there is no need to specify it as separate worker action (if the plot is already inside your territory).

Speaking of which, chopping forests definitely helps steer your border growth, but gets you fewer hammers than if you had waited for the border expansion first.
 
Browd is right, chopping forest on deer on anything other than plains is a consideration as this screenshot shows(granary in city). Have a look at the second screenshot, I'm getting an extra 4 hammers from working deer tiles
 

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^Nice! So you have one deer-camp-on-forested-plain that you can still safely chop, correct? Were the deer-camps-on-grassland originally forested, or did they spawn that way? Did you happen to have this map, or did you make it just for this thread? I did not realize that deer-camp-on-grassland yielded one more food (but one less hammer) than deer-camp-on-forest. It might be worth chopping every non-tundra deer tile. Also, the three wet hills should be farms.
 
rarely do you see deer without forest. the same goes for truffles/furs. it depends on what yield you're looking for, but I generally think keeping the forest on a deer grassland tile is good for 3f1h than chopping for 4f which you can get with a grassland river farm. chopping a plains forest tile is fine as long as you don't ever plan on building lumber mills....getting that settler out 2 turns earlier is probably more important.
 
I forgot about Furs and Truffles. Does it work the same? That is: Chop on hill or flat plain is free hammers. Chop on flat grassland to convert 1 hammer to a food. Don't chop on flat tundra.

I generally think keeping the forest on a deer grassland tile is good for 3f1h than chopping for 4f which you can get with a grassland river farm.

Sessy, take a second look at the screen shots. Deer camp on forest is 3f2h, an excellent tile. And I agree that 3f1h is better than 4f. But Deer camp on flat grass land is 4f1h which I think is quite competitive with 3f2h.

chopping a plains forest tile is fine as long as you don't ever plan on building lumber mills

Aside from Iroquois and exceptionally low production cities, and maybe a short window where lumber mills are +1h but dry farms are only +1f, when would you ever plan on building lumber mills?
 
Chopping forest has nothing to do with the tile resource (deer, truffles, furs, whatever). It only has to do with the difference, if any, between the base tiles yield of a forest (always 1food and 1 hammer, regardless of tile type) and the underlying tile yield (e.g., flat grassland is 2 food, flat plains is 1 food and 1 hammer, etc.). If the underlying tile yield is the same as the forest yield, chopping the forest generates free hammers, since the base tile yield will be same before and after the chop (1 food and 1 hammer).

So, if you chop a forested hill tile, the base yield will change by -1 food and +1 hammer, since base yield of a hill is 2 hammers. If you chop a flat grassland forest, yield changes by +1 food and -1 hammer, since flat grassland yield is 2 food. It's not any more complicated than that.
 
I forgot about Furs and Truffles. Does it work the same? That is: Chop on hill or flat plain is free hammers. Chop on flat grassland to convert 1 hammer to a food. Don't chop on flat tundra.



Sessy, take a second look at the screen shots. Deer camp on forest is 3f2h, an excellent tile. And I agree that 3f1h is better than 4f. But Deer camp on flat grass land is 4f1h which I think is quite competitive with 3f2h.



Aside from Iroquois and exceptionally low production cities, and maybe a short window where lumber mills are +1h but dry farms are only +1f, when would you ever plan on building lumber mills?

If we're comparing grassland deer camp and forested deer camp, I would still think a 3/2 tile is slightly better than a 4/1 tile simply because while the tile can sustain itself, production is more relevant throughout the game and is less available than food. When you look at food modifiers, there's a lot (landed elite, wltkd, religion), and trade route food is affected by that, but not trade route hammers.

lumber mills are hardly ever worth it imo, I'd rather just work mines and feed the city with cargo ships if I need to have high production.
 
... or did you make it just for this thread?...
I made it in IGE

...It might be worth chopping every non-tundra deer tile....
Only plains should be chopped, other terrain types you can decide based on what else you have.

...It only has to do with the difference, if any, between the base tiles yield of a forest (always 1food and 1 hammer, regardless of tile type) and the underlying tile yield (e.g., flat grassland is 2 food, flat plains is 1 food and 1 hammer, etc.). If the underlying tile yield is the same as the forest yield, chopping the forest generates free hammers, since the base tile yield will be same before and after the chop (1 food and 1 hammer)...
Thanks Browd, that clears it all up. I got confzzled because the civolopedia calls forest a feature and not terrain. The same goes for jungle in case anyone is wondering :)
 
The difference with jungle (unfortunately) is there are no free chop hammers from chopping jungle. And it takes longer to chop jungle. Grrr....
 
Chop around cities:
2) prevent defensive bonus for invaders

Just be careful with this. Yes you will remove the defensive bonus but you also can increase the line of sight to your capital to 2 tiles potentially allowing siege units to hit you from further away. Sometimes having rough terrain around a border city makes it take longer for AIs to maneuver units and you get more turns to launch range attacks at trebuchets etc....

I'm also in favor of chopping but depending on the circumstances; if I get an early worker and I have few improvements to make until I unlock masonry for instance.... Then I may chop to speed up an early wonder or a settler or a granary etc....
20 hammers is a big deal in the early game and is even more important for getting new cities going.

Lets say you found your 4th city and you want a Library ASAP but this new city only has 3 production at size 1 (2 production for being on a hill) and 1 from working a unimproved stone tile. That will take up to 25 turns without a worker. Improving the stone will make it build a bit faster but if I chop 2 forests that will save 13 turns allowing me to get my libraries and NC much quicker & focus on other improvements...
 
Chop on wonders or when making important stuff like a granary, worker or building you need immediately.

I almost always chop riverside tiles to get that civil service bonus. If it's on a hill then chopping is a no brainer. Chop to get hammers and then the tile gives even more hammers. If it's on a non-riverside grassland, I would much rather have a lumber mill than 3 food.
 
forests also provide vision/movement problems for enemy combatants. lesser use, but situationally strategic if you need it. outer rim cities are good for that.

early game i always chop and make farms for growth. i only make lumber mills with civs who have bonuses to forests or mills -- or in worse case scenarios where growth or hammers is severely constrained. with all the tech bonuses coming later for mills than farms, they arent worth it imo. but i will rarely make mills for puppets if needed too. depends on how easy it is play to the puppet tile governor.
 
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