The Immortal Challenge Lineup - Game #9 - India

Grendeldef said:
I came, I saw but didn't win yet. T166.

Spoiler :
Multiple spots with triple luxes and even with copies should a big no-no anything beyond Settler.
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I think it makes sense.

Spoiler :
You have the only desert on this landmass, so it makes sense it's filled with Incense. Then, due to the U-shape of this Pangaea, there are only two regions with jungle, so it is fair that it's filled with spices because the other side of the map is filled with Cotton and Wine. Also, I think game coding somehow balances out terrain with civs' UA, UB's, and UI's. For example, I find that the op civs like Poland, Korea, Shoshone do not get amazing starts, but for India it makes sense to have an extra lux or two because otherwise their expansion would be crippled so much they won't make it out of the early game.



Nigel_Tufnel2 said:
t150
Spoiler :
I don't think I've played India for 2 years, so I'm rusty. I restarted this one on t50 because USA got my 2nd city spot, and I had decided to go Piety and took Oral Traditions. I get the most enjoyment out of Civ by playing with synergies, and so to lose on a ton of plantations down S was just going to piss me off the rest of the game. I currently have 10 plantations being worked and will have up to 4 more later. This seems one of the only ways to make Piety worthwhile vs Tradition or Liberty. Took Tithe, Monasteries (only bldg left, so kicking butt in W city), Feed the World, Itin Preach, and Sacred Sities. Mor got an early religion with Mosques - I would like to get some, but it's too bad my W city is the one with all the incense - want to keep my religion. USA got 5th religion, I was hoping to spread like crazy to him and Poc. I should get 2 GP before Industrial, so spread will be good. [edit - notice the Mor GP trapped out W? Had him there for 30 turns now. I stupidly did a DOF with him after stealing one worker, I actually would like to spread for Mosques, and he is tying up a lot of units, but with Itin Preachers I am spreading rapidly.]

I was slow to get extra cities up as I was so cautious about happy. So I missed getting a 5th up N on the coast, Poc just grabbed it. Development has been slow because of buying tiles and chopping for ToA and focusing on Shrines and Temples. Few Granaries and WMills, everything is late except down S where I have stables and 4 tiles for it. I should have built ToA there in hindsight, as my cap is way behind schedule. I blew my W city placement - I was so obsessed with buying an incense tile from under Mor nose that I missed the river/mtn that actually had production tiles and marble in range - doh! It has 5 production, LOL.
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You actually inspired me to follow a similar strategy, but I went for 6-city rapid expansion Piety madness. t170-something NC ( :p ) after marinating in the Dark Ages with my reliigon for a while... but I am having a blast. Definitely more fun than the 4-city Tradition space race.

Spoiler :
Picked early Oral Tradition, then stole a worker from Morocco. Since I knew he'd be annoying, I did not sue for peace and built an Archer. Killed a couple of his warriors, and then captured 2 settlers on top of that (had to reload because I am so so bad at military unit movement). That put him back so much he founded only the last religion. I promised not to convert his cities but changed my mind a few turns later. I mean... my religion is better.. for me.

So I decided that with that start it would be difficult to do a CV (low production), and SV is just boring. So I decided to go for a Diplo win. My strategy was to spam missionaries and invest in CS's. I picked Church Property, since I intended to go around converting, then Pagodas because they are so good. Then I took Feed the World and Missionary Zeal, which, combined with Mandate of Heaven, gives half-priced Missionaries. I was also lucky enough to get the Great Mosque of Djenne. Only William went Piety, and I just knew the AI's would first build HS and Borobudur, so it was the only wonder I had a shot at. For Reformation, I picked Evangelism. I have done a Diety Diplo win with Charitable Missions, so I wanted to try something I had never picked. So, my strategy was to spam half-priced Missionaries and remove other religions' pressure from cities.

Unfortunately, William had a similar thought, so we are fighting over those City-States in the middle because neither he, nor I will stop the missionary spam. I also did not expect Washington to found a religion, but he did, and it is annoying. But he did not go Piety, so he isn't spamming. I went full Piety and want to go full Patronage. Ain't nobody got time for Rationalism. I would probably have done better with left-side Liberty into Piety, but that is again something I have already done before.

My tech progress and general development is the slowest I have ever had, but it's also fun pumping out Missionaries every other turn and bathing in gold. The world has been slow, as well. The AI's were a bit concerned that I build cities too aggressively, so I built Elephants and Archers early, but when I saw Pocatello marching at me, I decided to bribe him to go to war with Pachacuti. He would DoW Washington, but I just wanted his troops away. However, now USA decided they want some Native American land and took Te-Moak quickly. I think I should win this game via diplomacy... EVENTUALLY... but I need to make sure America is kept at bay.
 
T255 Diplomatic

I have learned today an interesting fact that despite two CS being my allies they can still have a war against each other. It seems a bit strange but OK :)

Spoiler :


Started with 3 cities, NC around T90. Then conquered 2 more cities from Morocco. After taking their capital Americans and Shoshone started hating me and Americans declared war on me. Shoshone were about to do the same but I could bribe them to attack the Dutch. Thanks to mountains and well placed city of Vijayanagara I was safe and a few composite men and a war elephant was enough. Later on I had no more wars although Americans had a huge army near my borders. Eventually I bribed them to attack Shoshone.

WF: This one was close: 1100 vs 1050 (Shoshone).

WC: WF, then World ideology Freedom, then IG (~10 turns before the end, I rejected it and voted again)

WLTKD: The 1st resource was fine but then I needed whales and nobody had it till the end of the game. I've found 2 whales on the map but they were not connected.

Policies: Full tradition and rationalism, almost full patronage, commerce and aesthetics opener.
Ideologies: Freedom, Level 1 - specialists consume half the food, +25% GP generation, happiness from mints; Level 2 - specialist unhappiness halved, 6 units for free.

Religion: Pantheon - 10% growth; +1 gold for every 4 followers and 15% growth;
AI spread religion to my other cities and I could buy mosques and pagodas there.

The tech path was usual concentrating on science building technologies first.
Education ~T120, ST ~T170, Plastics T220. Bought labs in all cities (4.4K gold, Big Ben wonder). Burned GS to Globalization and then to Satellites. Not a single RA.

All in all India is an interesting civ, happiness bonus is very nice to have for any victory condition. Thank you for the map.




 

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@sun8119
How do you get such a large population so quickly? I feel like I'm missing something fundamental. I won a science victory in the 300s with roughly the same city layout as you except I didn't take Marakech until late. Even with all the extra turns, Delhi was nowhere near 50 pop. It was maybe high 30s? I did three food caravans exclusively to Delhi for almost the entire game. Is it a matter of how quickly you get them up and running? I can't imagine it would make THAT big of a difference. I'm at work or I'd post a screenshot or a save.
 
He had a cargo ship, Tradition, Freedom, and maritime CS allies, it seems. PLUS, he took 10% growth rate pantheon and 15% growth rate from religion.
 
I suppose I should put these in spoiler tags...

Spoiler :
Opps! Somehow I missed that his Delhi was on the coast while mine was inland. Seems most of the people in this thread made the same move as me. In hindsight, maybe that was a mistake, but I don't think it was the deciding factor. I may need to try a game focused solely on growing the capital to astronomical heights. Probably the best way to bring my turn times down.
 
Spoiler :

Cornhog:

This :)

adcarrymaokai said:
He had a cargo ship, Tradition, Freedom, and maritime CS allies, it seems. PLUS, he took 10% growth rate pantheon and 15% growth rate from religion.
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Basically my 2nd and 3rd cargo ships very early to the capital, and another caravan to the capital, several maritime CS, Tradition, Freedom and growth rate bonuses. If you sum it up then your capital should be 50+ around T250 or so. Well, it would be 50+ in this game if I had more luck with WLTKD but even then it is possible :)

 
In my game I noticed a bug with spying that I'd seen a couple of times going back to Vanilla.

Pocatello was the tech leader when I got my initial spy so I sent him to Moson Kohni. After stealing my 2nd tech, Poca complained so I sent my spy home and promised to not spy on him any more, noting that I was now tech leader and had suffered a couple of thefts.

I soon hit Industrial so I sent that Special Agent back out to steal a tech from Pacal who was now tech leader, while I hoped to level up my recruit in Delhi on defense. I stole a tech from Pacal, and soon noticed that Pocatello was mad at me for lying about not spying on him anymore!!

I tried to steal a 2nd tech from Pacal but as I now had a decent tech lead, I soon got the message that he had nothing left to steal.

Annoying to have to take a bright red diplo hit for lying when I didn't lie.

Also annoying that the basic bright red penalty for getting caught spying lasts all game and doesn't fade at all.
 
Thanks for posting Budwiser!

I had to do some quick business in Cambodia and overrated my possibilities to stay online...

Now let's play!
 
t324 CV
Spoiler :
This was a mildly entertaining game. I decided not to do any GM bombs, and so loaded up as many slots as I could with my faith buys, only 2 were left open. Themed Oxford, Hermitage, and Sistine, and all 4 museums too. Lost WF to Poc by 130 hammers, but won Intl Games by 500. Poc was in semi-beast mode a lot of the game, and I hated how much land he nabbed on settling. He was easy to war bribe, and he lost some cities near the end. I never had a war after early worker steals. I went Freedom with Bill, Poc went solo Autocracy. USA flipped from Order to Freedom. I pissed everybody but Poc off by proposing World Religion, and was 3 turns from winning that. 6 Denouncements came, LOL. Easy DV was coming too. Nobody built Apollo. I did finally see some planes near the end. Science was very even during the first 2/3 of the game, with only a few per cent between first and worst.

My religion spread nicely to the SE, and ended with 108 gpt from Tithe - I'm pretty sure that's my highest ever. I screwed up the early game by not getting a 5th city up N, and I screwed around tech-wise. My plan was to get Hotels ASAP, so I took Ind to start Factories, and by the time they were almost done I had changed my mind and had Radio anyway. I went for Rep Parts ahead of schedule too, because I was not about to lose SoL for a 3rd time in a row. Then with Plastics I only bought 1 RLab and probably didn't build/buy any others for a long while. Too many wonders and Games to build. I also didn't grow enough early, and only had 3 food caravans to cap the last 1/4. I got stuck running 2 production caravans to W city because of the poor production while it built SoL.

After Hotels I got RR to build Neuschwanstein, which gave me my 4th city with a wonder, which is oh so nice with Aesthetics. Then Airports, then Internet. I finally got Combustion and got a TR with Pach which sped up the victory, he was the culture leader. I was very surprised with the late win - I thought Sacred Sites would speed it up a LOT more. I only had 6 faith buildings, FWIW.


 

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Turns 0-91

Spoiler :
I had some free time and a bit bored so I thought I would get in here and try Immortal. I have been wanting to play as India on a Deity thread but will have to wait for it to pop up one of these days.

So being that it is Immortal I figured why not roam around with my settler and see if I have any close neighbors. Sure enough on turn 2 I met Morocco. Now it took me a little time to decide where to settle. I didn't see his borders yet but since his scout was by the Mtn I figured he wasn't too much further. I know that I can settle on this level much later but I wanted to get in the desert for DF and I seen the marble so I took the Lux beside the Mtn instead of being on the river.

I was pretty happy to see his Cap was closer than expected. I actually met Lhasa before I had a city so the 8 faith and 30 gold was nice. My last couple of Deity games I have not had a good Honor mindset so I wanted to go Full Honor this game and that is what I did.

I decided I do not need a scout this game so I built Monument, Shrine first. After that I went settler and Morocco sent me a Caravan so I wasn't sure what I was going to do. Before I finished the settler his settler came by protected by a warrior. I messed up with my GG and did not get to steal his settler. A barb killed his warrior but he got to settle his expo in a spot close to where I was gonna put city #3.

So I went across the river and put up the expo and I wanted to put a citadel on his hill but I settled for putting it on his marble. I wish I could get the marble with the citadel but that doesn't happen incase you didn't know. I'll have to tear it up later and improve the marble.

I teched over to the War Elephants but since they take much longer to build I opted to only build 1 and 6x archers instead going down to construction with a detour to writing so I could get more archers before upgrades. I sold my luxes to Poc and the Inca for decent gpt. I got to kill a few barbs by Lhasa to get some influence and when I rescued a worker I became allied up with them. I dropped in another 250 gold to keep them since it is good fpt.

My religion is DF, Church Property and Pagodas for now. I will probably buy some Pagodas before enhancing. Straight down the left side of Honor and over to Discipline for now. I paid Poc to DOW the Inca and I took down Marrakech on turn 91. Time to get some peace and go kill someone else I hope. Im about to finish up two libraries and Im guessing a very late NC.
 

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lol indeed, so many huge cities and still positive happiness. I guess that is possible only with India.
 
I love this picture Bud... I looked at it many times in the last 2 days. I can't believe you actually took the time to improve every single Hex lol. Your a sick man...a sick man :)

EDIT: WOW! So your saying you went back after this pic and tore up things like mines and what not to make them farms? Geesh that is alot of work. At least your having fun playing how you want to play it. :)
 
Fluphen Azine said:
I love this picture Bud... I looked at it many times in the last 2 days. I can't believe you actually took the time to improve every single Hex lol. Your a sick man...a sick man :)
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Yeah, well after I took that picture, I converted ALL farmable tiles to farms.

Not mines, that would be wrong, but chopped all the trees and converted the desert trading posts..
 
turn 368 SV

Spoiler :
I won! I'll preface this by saying this is only my 2nd overall immortal victory an the first on standard size. I've never even played ghadi before! This entire game was full of war. Shone declared war early and i wound up taking 2 cities from them with some pretty awesome wonders. Later both george and morroco did the same. I took boston and wiped morrocco off the map. I warred with everyone throughout the game, but manage to keep each civ relatively weak and won pretty easily by the end of them. I tied to grow my cities pretty big and though I was doing a good job until I saw pics if some of you guys with like 50 pop caps... wtf? I was pushign caravans to my cap all day and i still only got to the low 20s. Here is a pic of the end of the game flub.jpg ... any advice?
 
morario84 said:
turn 368 SV

Spoiler :
I won! I'll preface this by saying this is only my 2nd overall immortal victory an the first on standard size. I've never even played ghadi before! This entire game was full of war. Shone declared war early and i wound up taking 2 cities from them with some pretty awesome wonders. Later both george and morroco did the same. I took boston and wiped morrocco off the map. I warred with everyone throughout the game, but manage to keep each civ relatively weak and won pretty easily by the end of them. I tied to grow my cities pretty big and though I was doing a good job until I saw pics if some of you guys with like 50 pop caps... wtf? I was pushign caravans to my cap all day and i still only got to the low 20s. Here is a pic of the end of the game View attachment 386218 ... any advice?
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All the tiles adjacent to river should be farms. I also assume you know how to build granaries, water mills, hospitals, etc. and take certain social policies or religious beliefs.
 
Damn it - I got so hooked on roughly equal war in terms of (non-)advanced units that I forgot it was an ICL. Ended with ~T345 domination at which point I had all the & enough faith/inquisitors/prophets to convert the few remaining heretic cities.
Nothing in this game made any sense.

If I'll find a late save/SS I'll add it later.

Spoiler :

Without boring details Poca attacked at some point like Washy earlier, without ranged units but CRs were still highly annoying.

Everyone hated so I was constantly running on negative gpt hence the units I could upgrade were very few and to keep the playing field even more level I ended deleting the spawned GSs as I didn't wanna bulb them and I couldn't afford to keep'em hanging around.
Washington's location wasn't very Xbow friendly but Poca & rest were dealt by GWBs/Bombers instead as I avoided arties. Palenque was softened up by Battleships but Pacal was pretty much the game from the start though I leveled few spies with his help. Inca was taken off by the Swedes, William was easy after killing the Nau fleet and Swedes apparently avoided navy so Battleships had another moment of glory - barbs were more harmful.

India's UA played a part later when I started razing cities when it really hurts and I even got a warning about a renegade city which had ambitions of becoming a part of less than glorious nation - I solved the problem by taking Amsterdam.

First war not involving me but still paid by broke somewhere T230 and lead to absolutely nothing. From ~T150 onwards I played pretty much my own game regardless of the others and only Neuschwanstein made a significant difference in the game - it solved my monetary problems almost in a single turn.

I hated everything the AI did and did not do but ignored the most of it, resumed zen & enjoyed immensely spreading genocide. I could've written a 12 volume encyclopaedia about the things I disliked in Civ5 & this game in general but I'll leave it for the future.
 
T327 Diplo. Not as fast as it could have been, but I enjoyed being a rich pious autocrat with disdain for science. :p

Also, I was able to missionary out-spam the AI's with Holy Order and Evangelism. Pretty strong combo. I converted 4 other civs and pretty much all CS to my religion despite the AI's attempts. 38 cities following. :)

Spoiler :
I went Piety-Patronage-Autocracy for teh lulz and rapidly expanded into 6 cities. While it sounds like insanity for India, the sheer amount of luxuries and copies to trade allowed me to stay in positive happiness during my expanse. I stole Morocco's worker and subsequently built a quick archer and enslaved 2-3 of his settlers. :p All of them really helped me improve the luxuries.

For religion, I took Oral Tradition pantheon, then picked Church Property, which, with 38 cities, gives a total of 76 GPT. That is pretty comparable to Tithe if not better in some cases. Pagodas, Feed the World, and Holy Order were my other beliefs. As I said before, I also picked Evangelism as my Reformation belief. Chopped for Borobudur. That whole combination gave me cheap missionaries every other turns who operated almost like prophets when converting cities. Despite AI's attempts to convert other civs, they simply could not withstand my army of missionaries. In the end, nobody really liked me because of my spread, but who cares -- I got the biggest military, all the CS's are my allies, and my ideology and religion are dominant in the world congress. :p Didn't even need Globalization.

I did not bother building NC until I had nothing else to build and also filled out Rationalism just for the gold from science buildings. The world was very slow in terms of tech, and I just got tired at some pointed and bulbed to Satellites just to get the world leader vote sooner.
 
adcarrymaokai said:
All the tiles adjacent to river should be farms. I also assume you know how to build granaries, water mills, hospitals, etc. and take certain social policies or religious beliefs.
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Do you chop jungle for this?

Also, I had +2 science from every specials and was working a lot of factories/workshops and cultural specialists in addition to the science ones... is this a good idea for SV or should my citizens stick to tiles?
 
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