The Deity Challenge Line-up #25 - Venice's Fool

Normally sailing might be worthwhile to get the extra trade route after you get your lux techs, and perhaps Philosophy for NC/Oracle. (With sea lux, it's tough, as Workboats take a long time to build.) It drops way down the queue if I need CB quick, which on Deity is always, it seems. Depending on the map, building/buying a Trireme is really important for scouting/CS meeting, etc.

With Venice you get a free MoV with Optics, so that may be reason to go early (or, in my case, avoid). With Venice you want to buy at least somewhat mature CSs, as on their own they build a ton of buildings/units and their borders expand normally. (Once you puppet you can't buy tiles.) Of course, a Lighthouse is one of the greatest buildings in the game for getting lots of food early.
 
t99
Spoiler :
This game is very silly, and loads of fun so far. (Giving myself Petra will be my new Deity-Lite-Lite-Lite move!) I knew I wanted to take out Korea ASAP, he went Piety and had smallest military. I didn't want to even think about punching Red Shaka in the nose with all that jungle and no way to forward settle. XBs and defense it will be, I guess.

I only puppeted Ife t73, and waited for the gems to get grabbed, which meant running a worker over to clear the jungle so the dang governor would finally grab the tile. Ran a trade mission to Zurich on t28, returned a worker and cleared camp, and now found a NW. I am still sitting on a MoV, and waiting for Optics... I might puppet Valetta, but am waiting for more tiles. Have been dancing with 2 units to block a Red Settler, and now a 2nd joined - had to pull a worker to help.

Early I bought 2 workers, 4 sheep, and an archer. No idea what I've bought since (a lot!), but I had all the sheep 20-30 turns ago to mass-produce wonders. Built one pasture and a Stable, so its beaucoup production.

T31 ToA, t65 Oracle, t71 HG (GE), t87 GW (1st time on Deity!), t91 Chichen Itza, t95 Borobudur, and t99 Hagia Sophia. Just hit Education now what with all the lower techs and working production focus other than the wheat. Pretty funny to NOT work salt all the time - still 59 food/turn, one food caravan, size 24, happy +32, 1st in pop, double the average. :D

Met Red and Real Shaka early, DOF with Korea that ended just as I got several units on his border. Took Seoul t89 with CBs (Parthenon) and took Kaesong t97 (GrLH!!!, MoH, and TerArmy). All he had to double was a Warrior and a Cat. :lol: Unfortunately, Teal Shaka met me the turn before I took it, so I have 3 Shakas who don't like my warmongering! Red Shaka has Impis - not likely to puppet Vaetta w/o XBs.

Taoism has DF, Tithe, Rel Community (overkill now), Mosques, Itin Preachers. The 3 Shakas have no religion, one religion to go - are the rest of them really Zulu??? Massive missionary spam underway.
 

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So Venice can't raze cities - how are you supposed to go DomV? Isn't happy going to kill you? I suppose Autocracy, and hope the governor builds walls/castles? He won't build Barracks...
 
Nigel_Tufnel2 said:
Normally sailing might be worthwhile to get the extra trade route after you get your lux techs, and perhaps Philosophy for NC/Oracle. (With sea lux, it's tough, as Workboats take a long time to build.) It drops way down the queue if I need CB quick, which on Deity is always, it seems. Depending on the map, building/buying a Trireme is really important for scouting/CS meeting, etc.

With Venice you get a free MoV with Optics, so that may be reason to go early (or, in my case, avoid). With Venice you want to buy at least somewhat mature CSs, as on their own they build a ton of buildings/units and their borders expand normally. (Once you puppet you can't buy tiles.) Of course, a Lighthouse is one of the greatest buildings in the game for getting lots of food early.
Click to expand...

One good think about buying city states early is that you canimmediately send food to capital(not really needed on this map though)

Other good think is if they dont have workable tiles they will work university slots
 
Light Cleric said:
The 3 MoV, 8 sheep, 5 Wheat, 5 Salt and free Petra are one thing but actually having sea resources as Venice? That totally breaks my immersion. :p
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That start kinda sucks because there are no horses or iron and its supposed to be domination.
 
budweiser said:
That start kinda sucks because there are no horses or iron and its supposed to be domination.
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Just MoV a city-state that has Horses. Iron is pretty irrelevant on a Pangaea unless you're like Denmark.

edit: unless you meant there's literally no Horses on the map which I guess is possible since this map is cooked :p
 
An update T244, not even half way done.

Spoiler :
Red Shaka is defeated. Blue and white Shaka is up next.

Spoiler :
 
Wondering when you guys hit about the same tech because

Spoiler :
I'm not a deity player but swordsmen+horsemen+CB are not fun against Impi. Was struggling to get to the Xbows. I saw the start and thought super easy.... I don't Deity lol.


Anyone doing an LP of this?
 
Nigel_Tufnel2 said:
So Venice can't raze cities - how are you supposed to go DomV? Isn't happy going to kill you? I suppose Autocracy, and hope the governor builds walls/castles? He won't build Barracks...
Click to expand...

I've razed 20+ cities in my game so not sure where you got this idea ;)

salocin097 said:
Wondering when you guys hit about the same tech because...swordsmen+horsemen+CB are not fun against Impi. Was struggling to get to the Xbows
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Yeah you need Crossbows and Knights against Pikes, and you need promoted Riflemen and Cavalry to make good progress into Impi.

With this kind of crazy start you should have everything you need really early. You need to concentrate on getting really far ahead on tech because at a certain point, the AI spam and the # of cities that some of them will have, can begin to even things out a bit.

- - -

Update in my own game: T230ish. The conquest is almost done. Soon I can begin making the most fantastic puppet empire ever seen ;)

Q: What is a respectable score for a Time game?
 
consentient said:
Q: What is a respectable score for a Time game?
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The best Time games in HoF have scores around 20k. It's harder to predict for Venice though. High pop cities boost the score more than anything, but as Venice you can't found your own cities, and you can't annex the captured cities to micromanage them properly either. This means less cities, suboptimal growth, likely less scientists for popping Future techs etc. The AIs are Shakas, so the number of cities should be at least somewhat close to optimal though. 18000 would be a very good score here I think.

You say you've razed a lot of cities though, maybe let the real Shaka live for a bit longer so he resettles those locations first? :)
 
Turn 200 domination victory with blitz X-Com :cool:

Spoiler :

I dumped 2 merchants of venice into Zurich for some more initial cash and happiness. I think i bought a worker right away and later granary, library, watermill and stables. Bought alot of those sheep tiles as well.

Got religion with DF, 15% growth and production, 50 faith per great person.

Got DOF with 2 of the Korea and 2 of the Zulu later. At some point I had 4 RA running simultaneously. Generated 2 or 3 GS naturally, 1 from Porcelain Tower, 1 from Leaning Tower which I used the GE for. Bought 1 GE and 2 GS with faith. Turn 190 or so I started bulbing and took all the capitals in a couple of turns.

All of the AI where either honor or liberty, so I could build all wonders I was aiming for, including Alhambra and Brandenburg for blitz X-Com :D

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vadalaz said:
The best Time games in HoF have scores around 20k. It's harder to predict for Venice though. High pop cities boost the score more than anything, but as Venice you can't found your own cities, and you can't annex the captured cities to micromanage them properly either. This means less cities, suboptimal growth, likely less scientists for popping Future techs etc. The AIs are Shakas, so the number of cities should be at least somewhat close to optimal though. 18000 would be a very good score here I think.

You say you've razed a lot of cities though, maybe let the real Shaka live for a bit longer so he resettles those locations first? :)
Click to expand...

Thanks for the information.

Right now it's T235. I have 26 cities, 27 wonders. Shaka 'di Maria' and 'Casimir Shaka' are kaput. I puppeted all of their cities that had Public Schools and razed the rest. And 'Real Shaka' has been reduced to a few small cities handy for my trades if and when I DoW 'Spicy Sejong'. But the war lasted nearly 100 turns for all three Shakas combined so there was plenty of time for other civs to fill the gaps.

My original strategy was to conquer the world apart from one capital and then just sit on my lead, like I sometimes did in Civ 2 to try to get a good score. Since I have near-on unlimited gold I can buy whatever I want to help me.

Current stats are:

GPT: around 1500
CPT: around 1600
BPT: around 1400

Thanks for the tips. Maybe I should let 'Spicy Sejong' live for a while and let him settle lots of pointless cities, then conquer them and fill them with goodies. 'Real Sejong' is playing the most stupid 3-city tradition game and hasn't settled anything in ages. I think that he still thinks he can build a spaceship. :D

[EDIT: Do you lose points for using nukes?]
 
Thanks for the map. I am having fun, but its taking an hour to play 5 turns. I am at turn 251, my score is 2301 iirc.
 
This was funny wonder whore domination map :D I build something 20 wonders in my capitol for fun. Only one I really missed was Notre Dame. Could probably have builded it too. Missed it by couple of turns. I build even Angor wat. It took only something like 3-4 turns to build it :D

Domination victory on turn 226. DOWed real Korea on turn 190 or somthing after buiyng IFE. Korea asked why my troops are there so decided to DOW :). Started war against RED Shaka after turn 200. He was my best buddy until then. I backstabbed him and took all his money before :) Maybe little cheesy but those are rules of game

Went autocracy and most important policy was Blitz Krieg

I had over 100 happiness before starting war. Bought 3 city states with merchant but no immediately because of happiness

Edit: There was no need for artillery. Landships/tanks and planes move much faster. Artillery just cant keep up with pace

Edit2: Took 4 of red shakas cities on same turn as I declared war.
 
consentient said:
[EDIT: Do you lose points for using nukes?]
Click to expand...
No, not directly anyway. It'll reduce the AI's cities' population which does affect the score a bit, but it's nothing you can't fix with some food buildings and/or internal trade routes. You still have 265 turns to play, and in the end most of your cities will probably stop growing anyway.

Autocracy is great for happiness, but Freedom's probably the best choice for Time victories overall because of 1 food specialists. But then again, if you go unhappy, it doesn't matter. So perhaps Autocracy is the better choice here, especially given the abundance of Shaka. ;)

For reference, here's the list of multipliers for each element of the final score:
Monthar said:
Here's the list sorted from highest to lowest multiplier to make it easier to plan what you want to do.
Code: 
WONDER_MULTIPLIER 25 (per world wonder)
BELIEF_MULTIPLIER 20 (per belief - max 100 without reformation, 120 with reformation or as Byzantium and 140 for Byzantium with reformation)
FUTURE_TECH_MULTIPLIER 10 (each time future tech is researched)
CITY_MULTIPLIER 8 (per city)
POPULATION_MULTIPLIER 4 (per pop)
TECH_MULTIPLIER 4 (per tech)
POLICY_MULTIPLIER 4 (per policy)
GREAT_WORK_MULTIPLIER 4 (per great work)
LAND_MULTIPLIER 1 (per workable tile)
RELIGION_CITIES_MULTIPLIER 1 (per city following your religion)

Because the points per belief are second only to points per wonder, going Piety for the reformation belief with get you 20 more points than spending the culture in a different tree. However, if those points are spent in Rationalism and can get you at least 5 more techs you'll end up with the same score. Likewise if the points are spent in Aesthetics and can get you at least 5 more great works that will also balance with the points from a reformation belief.

Another edit: With further testing it seems the land multiply only counts land tiles in your cultural border, not water tiles (even if they have a resource). This includes mountains and the tile the city is on.
Click to expand...
 
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