Community Deity Game #1 - Persia

beetle · Nov 5, 2015

Bob Morane said:
Concerning MODs...

Thank you Bob for all the effort, it was quite educational. I will be more careful in the future, but this alone was not enough to empower the musket upgrade path for me.

In particular, I never put my mouse over “Single Player” so, until your help, I thought “Single Player” was a label and not a button. I did wonder why the screen seemed to be a dead end, with only the “Back” button. That should have prompted me to explore more!

With your guidance, I did this this key step with my T168 save where I finally had money, Pikes standing by, and gunpowder researched.

Nope, Pikes will still not upgrade. I am sure that once I get to Metallurgy, they will upgrade to Pikes.

Of note, I am seeing this in the interface -- but I was getting that before just using the normal load screen.

I am on a Mac, so that could be poxing things. The Mac UI has only had the MODS menu for about six months, and I never tried mods before then.

Sclb said:
Ok, seems that I was able to reactivate the UU upgrade on my t150 save file.

Was that just from following Bob’s instructions, or did you tweak the .modinfo file?

i_imperator · Nov 5, 2015

Thinking about giving this a go, but its my first deity map/game, was wondering if ye think its suitable for that? Or Should I just try one of the Deity Challenges?

Edit:Many thanks to Bob Morane for explaining how to install the mods! :goodjob:

Sclb · Nov 5, 2015

beetle said:
Was that just from following Bob’s instructions, or did you tweak the .modinfo file?

I tweaked the .modinfo file

First exit from the game.

Go into the MODS folder, open the MODS\Units - Pikeman to Musketman (v 2) folder and open the following file with a text editor
Units - Pikeman to Musketman (v 2).modinfo

edit line 9 to

Code:

<AffectsSavedGames>0</AffectsSavedGames>

Now that the mod thinks that it doesn't affect saved games, so you can just manually activate it by loading the game through MODS menu by activating the mods, like your 2nd screenshot. In order for this to work, you must load the saved game through mods menu every time you start civ5.

GenuineRisk · Nov 5, 2015

stormtrooper412 said:
I played 10 more turns with small progress. I used up all of my oil but the unit crankage is real. The conquest path is somewhat easy, just need to mow down plenty of carpets but since people started brandishing aircrafts, gonna need some spotters to bring those flies down, does anyone have any info on how the interception mechanics work

Fighters on Intercept and anti-aircraft units have defensive interception attacks. When an enemy aircraft does an air strike in the area, one of those interception attacks is triggered. Air Sweeps use up interception attacks, making the area safe to conduct air strikes. I don't really know all of the numbers regarding air combat, but basically if you want to attack with Bombers, you need Air Sweeps and if you want to defend against Bombers you need Intercept. If oil's in short supply or you don't have an air base nearby, AA Guns/Mobile SAMs are worth considering.

i_imperator said:
Thinking about giving this a go, but its my first deity map/game, was wondering if ye think its suitable for that? Or Should I just try one of the Deity Challenges?

This is an easy map with a strong civ if you do not go for the recommended VC. It's not a great map for a first-time Deity player to attempt Domination, though. I only played the more recent DCLs, but I thought #32 (England) and #34 (Egypt) were good for first Deity games.

Phenril · Nov 5, 2015

egypt dcl is terrible for a first time deity game... raging barbs you'r isolated and pretty poor land.
russia DCL is quite easy, i lost it cause i underestimated musketman but seems pretty easy, spain DCL is an easy one too. don't know about england.
Good luck with your jump to deity, i really had hard time switching from immortal, the extra settlers is seriously hard to deal with.

beetle · Nov 5, 2015

Sclb said:
I tweaked the .modinfo file

Thanks, but I am sorry to say, this did not rescue my T168 file where my pikes are read to upgrade. But I never loaded the initial T0 save from the MODS menu, so I am going to try again from scratch.

Now that the mod thinks that it doesn't affect saved games...

Wait! But is the mod does affect saved games! So does the bug actually belong to V and not the .modinfo file?

EDIT: Are games saved with mods in a different place than regular game files? CiV shows them all in the same listing, but I cannot find them using Finder (the Mac OS file browser). Very odd...

beetle · Nov 5, 2015

I lost on turn 280 to X who was just one part away from SV as well. That was not the fastest trashing I have gotten, but may be the most thorough. I am not sure I can win this one by any means. I am going to try again from T0 since there were DCL games that I thought were hopeless too. Plus I want to try and get the mods to work. I will be going Liberty this time, as Pyramids was available until almost T100. Plus I might give up the achievements for 3 city CB rush.

I have a couple questions thought. What is the map? I like it, but so much more land than I was expecting. Is it low sea level?

How long are golden ages? Are natural ones a different length than bulbing a Great Artist?

Turn 272 is the non proliferation vote, T273 results notification. T274 X boasts that he has nukes. How does that work?

Spoiler :

GenuineRisk · Nov 5, 2015

beetle said:
How long are golden ages? Are natural ones a different length than bulbing a Great Artist?

Tough loss, beetle. Don't know the details of your game, but I recommend keeping the eastern AIs busy in wars next time to slow them down. They did it themselves in my game, but you may have to stir the pot a bit. Default Persian Golden Age is 15 turns (natural) or 12 turns (GA).

Blatc · Nov 5, 2015

consentient and stormtrooper412,
can you confirm how points with work for this new series and if the current achievements, totalling 16 possible points, will remain as is for this specific map. One thing to consider: will all maps have a total of, say, 15-20 possible points?

Thanks for your efforts.

stormtrooper412 · Nov 5, 2015

I was really busy recently so I didn't have time to work on the spreadsheet, sadly. I think it should work like this:

3 points - win under 220 turns
2 points - win before 300 but after 220
1 point - win after 300 turns.

Achievements remain as is. Only finishing the map with the suggested VC will be eligible for recording, until and if we decide otherwise

consentient · Nov 5, 2015

@Beetle: I'm on a Mac and have never had any problems with Mods, but I've been making the maps, so maybe something else is happening? I think if you load the save from the Mod > Single Player menu then save, exit, and always go back in the same way, you shouldn't have any problems. I've tested another game this way and Bob is right, the Mods will stick around.

@blatc: It's unclear yet whether any of the other people who suggested that they might act as rotating hosts are going to do so, but for all the maps I create, there will always be 5 achievements, and I think I'm rating them based on how difficult I imagine them to be. I guess my instinct is for this: -

- 1 point for something fun, probably not difficult but good to do
- 2 points for something that you have to go out of your way to do
- 3 points for something that requires thorough planning and might be difficult to achieve
- 4 points for something very difficult
- 5 points for a 'Deity' achievement - i.e. only the best players will manage it

I think that those are true of the current map achievements. D is definitely the hardest. There could be an argument that it's not worth 5, and could be a 3 or a 4. I'm happy to be open to revision on them, as I'm an imperfect mathematician, it's just that when I defined D, it was because in my view, if you start war later, it makes the job harder. See this quote from my Domination guide:-

"Winning ASAP

Let's start by making one thing really clear. Since Domination relies on capture rather than building, the earlier you get it done, the better. This is not just because it's nice and impressive to win really quickly, but the quicker you can capture 7 capitals, the less time the hateful psychopaths who own those capitals will have to build defences and spam hordes of units, and to research techs that make your troops outdated and lose the edge. So really, a good Domination game is one which is won in the Midgame - i.e. the Midgame is your Endgame."

[This is also why I didn't offer ST advice about wars involving air units - I don't know what to do when I get there. I have so little experience winning DomV where I go up against bombers.]

If it's useful to you, Blatc, or others, in helping you understand my conception of the achievement points, here are the achievements I have planned for CDG #2 (spoilers, obviously)

Spoiler :

I hope the above has been useful.

- - -

ONE MORE THING: I'm definitely open to suggestions about custom civ mods in the future, but have found the opposite to what the earlier comments were. The custom civs I tried were really under-powered, not overpowered. Maybe I tried the wrong ones.

Blatc · Nov 5, 2015

The turn times to victory will vary in difficulty by map, as they will rotate easy/medium/hard and with different VCs. Rather than the 3-2-1 points outlined by ST, I think it would make more sense if Consentient occasionally includes turn time as one of the 5 achievements, as he has already indicated he will do for map #2 in his spoiler.

My input would be that each map
*have 5 achievements totalling 15-20 points so that the total score (sum of multiple games) can be a meaningful ranking
*have a suggested VC, but occasionally more than 1 (as on this map)
*expand some of the achievements to have 2 potential scores. This could partly incorporate the turn time suggestion ST made (ex. 5 points for sub-230 or 3 points for sub-260)

Hope that helps. Again, your efforts are appreciated. I think it would be best to finalize how scoring will work before getting any further in this series.

Blatc · Nov 5, 2015

consentient said:
I think that those are true of the current map achievements. D is definitely the hardest. There could be an argument that it's not worth 5, and could be a 3 or a 4.

Depends on the player; for me, it is worth more than 5 :sad:

I'm likely going for partial points on this map. Or I could finally learn how to use siege units.

beetle · Nov 5, 2015

In my latest re-reboot, Pyramids went T34. So now I am trying 5 city Tradition. There was a spot I just could not pass on! :sad:

stormtrooper412 said:
I think it should work like this: [snip] 1 point - win after 300 turns.

That is just padding then, especially because:

Only finishing the map with the suggested VC will be eligible for recording

stormtrooper412 · Nov 5, 2015

Turn 236 Quit

This was grueling, I seem to have bitten off more than I can chew. Good effort though, but Infantry on hills with Defender of the Faith are insane to break down.

It's a real shame because I really really like this new concept

Phukit · Nov 5, 2015

stormtrooper412 said:
Turn 236 Quit

This was grueling, I seem to have bitten off more than I can chew. Good effort though, but Infantry on hills with Defender of the Faith are insane to break down.

It's a real shame because I really really like this new concept

I especially like defenders of the faith when turtling with ethiopia or the shoshone......Come at me bro!

beetle · Nov 5, 2015

beetle said:
In my latest re-reboot, Pyramids went T34. So now I am trying 5 city Tradition.

So when I go Tradition, now the ‘mids go T109…

I was very careful w/ file loading. Pikes still will not upgrade!

It is just a couple achievement points, but it nerfs my whole game. I don’t mind avoiding Civil Service, but I don’t need Lancers with Cover, let alone ten of them!

EDIT: Also missed a religion despite Desert Folklore. Reloading back to turn 68 is a pleasure…

consentient · Nov 5, 2015

Blatc said:
The turn times to victory will vary in difficulty by map, as they will rotate easy/medium/hard and with different VCs. Rather than the 3-2-1 points outlined by ST, I think it would make more sense if Consentient occasionally includes turn time as one of the 5 achievements, as he has already indicated he will do for map #2 in his spoiler.

I think the turn time will nearly always be an achievement for science, and possibly some of the time for Diplo and DomV. That's my general feeling. Again, that's just for the maps I roll.

My input would be that each map
*have 5 achievements totalling 15-20 points so that the total score (sum of multiple games) can be a meaningful ranking
*have a suggested VC, but occasionally more than 1 (as on this map)
*expand some of the achievements to have 2 potential scores. This could partly incorporate the turn time suggestion ST made (ex. 5 points for sub-230 or 3 points for sub-260)

I'm OK with the first two, but a score is a score. This is basically a roleplaying series, so you can equate the turn time achievements to something like situations I used to face in that LOTR RTS where it would give you a countdown timer for how long you needed to survive until the Riders of Rohan and Gandalf show up. DomV before Modern otherwise Hiawatha will overrun the face of the earth, or something like that. Launch before some Babylonian god returns to flatten the planet in an armageddon.

So I can't see there being a range of turn times or a range of scores. If something is discrete, as with the Immortals, it should have that ONE score. If I gave 1 point for 5 Immortals, 2 points for 10, or whatever, it just seems to weaken the concept overall, IMO.

Blatc said:
Depends on the player; for me, it is worth more than 5
I'm likely going for partial points on this map. Or I could finally learn how to use siege units.

I went for partial points because I just love how OP CBs and XBs are during a GA. And I really love those units anyway!

stormtrooper412 · Nov 6, 2015

Well you can take down first AI using Horses/Immortals/Catapults, then use Knights/Pikes/Trebs, then Muskets/Cannons and then Rifles/Arty. I definitely see roleplaying potential here but I honestly don't know if that can be efficient enough on Deity.

Perhaps HCA? Come on guys, I was really bummed out I had to quit but there was simply to way to break down that guy on the west despite serious chunks in his armour (and one bonfire where a city used to be lulz)

consentient · Nov 6, 2015

It was a tough map IMO, so don't get too down about it. Maybe Peddroelm can show up and make an LP that shows us all how to do it with style

Community Deity Game #1 - Persia

Deity

Imperator

Emperor

Warlord

Chieftain

Deity

Deity

Warlord

Prince

Peacemongering Turtlesaur

Domination!

Prince

Prince

Deity

Peacemongering Turtlesaur

Warlord

Deity

Domination!

Peacemongering Turtlesaur

Domination!

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