Obvious cheating

I've played BtS since it came out. For years I was an indifferent player. Now, I am trying to move up to Monarch. I play and discard games in a matter of hours trying to learn what I need to know. It's a slog, and I am obviously missing something as I never win.

My most recent game was Monarch, Continents, normal, Time VC, Standard map with 6 Civ's. I was Suleiman and had Augustus Caesar and Gilgamesh on my continent. My city count was comparable to theirs, five a piece. Open Borders with both. Gil declared on AC and asked me along. I said sure as I had a stack of Swordsmen and Axemen to throw in to the fray. It was at that point that I realized that AC had Longbowmen. AND adopted Vassalage. WITHOUT FEUDALISM!!! What gives?!?!?!?! Any one know? And is there a way to stop it? I suspect it's part of the bumps the AI gets as the difficulty level increases, but, I've seen Triremes in the middle of the ocean before, so, maybe it's a bug?

Augustus had feudalism, because AIs cannot adopt civics they don't have access to or build units they don't have access to. This is regardless of difficulty level. You have to have missed it when you looked at the diplo advisor.

Triremes can only enter ocean inside the civs own cultural borders.

I'm guessing you don't have monarchy so feudalism won't show up on the trade screen.

elitetroops said:

I'm guessing you don't have monarchy so feudalism won't show up on the trade screen.

Click to expand...

My bet too. Perhaps more important than seeing what techs they will trade (or not) to you, is to see what techs they can research. Couple this together and you can quite accurately know what techs they have. It helps to check the tech window (F6) to make sure, as I guess most won't remember all the details by heart.

But civilizations can't adopt a civic they don't have access to, either via the technology or a wonder that enables it (Pyramids for example, for early Police State).

The AI does 'cheat' on higher levels, but that is through bonuses to production, research, upgrading units, lower maintenance costs, that kind of thing.

At those levels.. ais will be really advanced, but like these 2 people said, you still didnt have monarchy yet to know whether the ai had vassalage or not.

Well, I went back and looked and no, I do not have Monarchy. Yes, Julius (it's Julius not Augustus) has Monarchy and Feudalism is not something he can research. Meaning, he already researched it. I'm just not used to the AI having Feudalism before Turn 120. How do I even remotely keep up with THAT?!

Oh, and while I can't prove it, as I don't have a screenshot of it, I will defend to the day I die the fact that I saw a Trireme in the middle of the ocean. Just moving along, doing its thing.

'I tawt I taw a ...'. 'I did, I did taw a ...'.

The code states triremes can't enter ocean tiles.

Could it have been a mod? I know in RFC Europe, any Norse boat can enter ocean tiles.

stophro said:

Well, I went back and looked and no, I do not have Monarchy. Yes, Julius (it's Julius not Augustus) has Monarchy and Feudalism is not something he can research. Meaning, he already researched it. I'm just not used to the AI having Feudalism before Turn 120. How do I even remotely keep up with THAT?!

Oh, and while I can't prove it, as I don't have a screenshot of it, I will defend to the day I die the fact that I saw a Trireme in the middle of the ocean. Just moving along, doing its thing.

Click to expand...

T120 Longbows is still very late, due to the low difficulty on which you're playing. On Deity, I've not only once seen Longbows at 1500 BC, but 500 BC is a very common date for AIs to reach Feudalism, that's still 30T before your T120.

If you have "a few swords" at that time, than you simply build too much unnecessary stuff, because one can have a few swords at 1500 BC, so 2000y earlier. Players usually do their first attack on Deity in the range between 2000 BC and 500 BC, and usual stack-sizes are i. e. 10 HAs (at about 1500 BC) or 12 Elephants + 6 Catapults (at 500 BC) .

Use those dates and numbers to compare and improve.

Also: Elepult beats also Longbows at fairly decent rates, so instead of Swords, you might wanna try to claim Ivory next time.

Seraiel said:

T120 Longbows is still very late, due to the low difficulty on which you're playing. On Deity, I've not only once seen Longbows at 1500 BC, but 500 BC is a very common date for AIs to reach Feudalism, that's still 30T before your T120.

If you have "a few swords" at that time, than you simply build too much unnecessary stuff, because one can have a few swords at 1500 BC, so 2000y earlier. Players usually do their first attack on Deity in the range between 2000 BC and 500 BC, and usual stack-sizes are i. e. 10 HAs (at about 1500 BC) or 12 Elephants + 6 Catapults (at 500 BC) .

Use those dates and numbers to compare and improve.

Also: Elepult beats also Longbows at fairly decent rates, so instead of Swords, you might wanna try to claim Ivory next time.

Click to expand...

Quite helpful. Thank you.

Tatran said:

'I tawt I taw a ...'. 'I did, I did taw a ...'.

The code states triremes can't enter ocean tiles.

Click to expand...

Not so much.

stophro said:

Oh, and while I can't prove it, as I don't have a screenshot of it, I will defend to the day I die the fact that I saw a Trireme in the middle of the ocean. Just moving along, doing its thing.

Click to expand...

Probably a Trireme that had been upgraded to a Caravel. Units that are upgraded keep their original unit name in the tool-tip

For example (although this is a Caravel upgraded to a Frigate but you get the gist):

Ironlungs76 said:

Probably a Trireme that had been upgraded to a Caravel. Units that are upgraded keep their original unit name in the tool-tip

Click to expand...

I keep unit names turned off because of this reason.

Lots of reasons why that couldve happened...