Most overrated World Wonder?

kb27787 said:
Pyras/Zeus probably...
(if you're so free at that point in the game chances are your NC is not going to be up early anyway)
Pyras cost exactly two workers, but building simply two workers never fail (and the first worker can forest-chop out the second one earlier), and pyras sometimes are gone early (but sometimes are built t200)

+15% against cities is nice, but hardly game breaking. If you're going to capture a city chances are you're going to capture it. With or without the bonus.
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I don't get it: even on Deity, you quickly know if pyra are gone or not.
If not, why bothering building 2 workers when you can have a free +25 and a GE point at the same time?
In my Deity games (and I play lib 90%) I never failled to get it: either be gone or I got it, but never in the middle.
 
BEFanatic said:
Neuschwanstein is for dom games, which is why it is on the bottom of the tech tree. Considering you may already have castles from Auto (or at least your puppets may), it is a lot of free happiness and gold.

Very useful if the culture leader is hiding behind some deeply entrenched friends and you need to fight through with dissident ideology unhappiness.

Of course it isn't useful if all you play is 4 city tradition space victory games.
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Domination games are won well before Railroad.
 
Ha, this is an odd thread in that opinions seem to be all over the place. I guess difficulty matters, as is whether one knows how to put a wonder to use.

I frankly am astounded at the votes for Statue of Liberty. If you're getting a a bad start, a powerful AI neighbor, or catching up to far away runaway AI, a full specialist economy is a dominant tool. It's the wonder that really fits into a positive feedback loop.

Half-food, half - unhappiness, hammer, and two raw beakers for a 10 specialist city, or 20 specialist cap= powerhouse.

Are people not Oxfording or bulbing? You want all these advantages as fast as possible. And hammers build research labs, hospitals, med labs, et al.

I love SOL. I also like CN Tower, as I often have 10+ late game cities and I'm often losing happiness to a world full of Order AI pressure. CN is great for fighting back
 
Nick31 said:
Ha, this is an odd thread in that opinions seem to be all over the place. I guess difficulty matters, as is whether one knows how to put a wonder to use.

I frankly am astounded at the votes for Statue of Liberty. If you're getting a a bad start, a powerful AI neighbor, or catching up to far away runaway AI, a full specialist economy is a dominant tool. It's the wonder that really fits into a positive feedback loop.

Half-food, half - unhappiness, hammer, and two raw beakers for a 10 specialist city, or 20 specialist cap= powerhouse.

Are people not Oxfording or bulbing? You want all these advantages as fast as possible. And hammers build research labs, hospitals, med labs, et al.

I love SOL. I also like CN Tower, as I often have 10+ late game cities and I'm often losing happiness to a world full of Order AI pressure. CN is great for fighting back
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I tend to agree that a lot of ratings are based on how you play. I also find the specialists are great for building Apollo, Hubble and space ship factories and as you mentioned, teamed up with half food and unhappiness, it allows you to move tile workers to your specialist slots, which in turn further helps your science production for a faster win.

Of course there is also the case of these are overrated, which means many of the people here rate them higher than they should be and in turn defend them.
 
The ONLY reason I can see that Statue of Liberty would be overrated is because Order is arguably better for almost all victory conditions (diplomacy being the outlier there, because Treaty Organization is baller). Other than that, unless you're playing some super wide, 40 city liberty game where you have zero specialists, I have absolutely no idea how you can possibly call it overrated. It's an excellent wonder and comes at Plastics. What do you have left to build? Oh, I dunno, everything important?
 
People build Taj Mahal? I never would have imagined.

Chichen Itza gives the same happiness, but longer Ages. Build that and an Artist's guild and you'll get way more turns of Golden Age.
 
Nick31 said:
Ha, this is an odd thread in that opinions seem to be all over the place. I guess difficulty matters, as is whether one knows how to put a wonder to use.

I frankly am astounded at the votes for Statue of Liberty. If you're getting a a bad start, a powerful AI neighbor, or catching up to far away runaway AI, a full specialist economy is a dominant tool. It's the wonder that really fits into a positive feedback loop.

Half-food, half - unhappiness, hammer, and two raw beakers for a 10 specialist city, or 20 specialist cap= powerhouse.

*Are people not Oxfording or bulbing? You want all these advantages as fast as possible. And hammers build research labs, hospitals, med labs, et al.*

I love SOL. I also like CN Tower, as I often have 10+ late game cities and I'm often losing happiness to a world full of Order AI pressure. CN is great for fighting back
Click to expand...

Generally from my experience, I found that Oxford is best saved for Radio tech, and I rarely ever build research labs or any science buildings as I focus on buying them.
 
I think Kremlin could be or sometimes since you only get mobile unit bonuses. Random maps don't always appear like large pangeas..
 
Nick31 said:
I frankly am astounded at the votes for Statue of Liberty.
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Thing is, it is easy to work specialist slots either way, especially in BNW (food routes). So Statue of Liberty is only giving you a handful of hammers, that is it. Normally I praise the hell out of anything that gives hammers, but at that stage in the game what are you going to use them on? The city that built Statue is likely already a monster city as is, and even then I'd probably end up rush-purchasing labs or whatever else anyway.

More often than not, those hammers are just sitting there not contributing much of anything. Hence overrated.

Even more so in BNW. Not like hammers were ever important in a diplo game, but with Treaty Organization it is literally sit back and wait. Utopia isn't part of culture game anymore, so I suppose it could help knock out Sydney Opera House and National Visitor Center a few turns quicker but hardly game-changing. Freedom gives you a tenet specifically for NOT using hammers on spaceship parts, so I suppose that leaves a few turns off of Hubble. Again, not game-changing.

It isn't a bad wonder, it is simply like most wonders in that it comes too late to matter.
 
Those hammers - and you can have up to 18 of them - get all the multipliers too. The Statue of Liberty usually saves a fair number of turns in building the Apollo Program, the Hubble Telescope and the spaceship parts. The odds that you can buy all six of them diminish as your game improves.

And on top of that, you get a free policy, too.
 
I have not had a lot of domination games that were over before Neuschwanstein was built. One of the most common strategies on Deity is late game Domination, which starts at Flight. In this strategy both Prora and Neusch are very useful as they allow you to take several extra cities quickly. Neusch is definitely in my top 5 of best wonders.

Also: Pyramids are amazing and pretty easy to get, or at least know when you can get them.
 
new one...Temple of Athemis. It suffers Great Library syndrome. As in, it costs too much early to build, and not guaranteed, and limiting growth for the first 100 turns isn't going to pay off in the end. If you want more growth, focus on growth. I'll throw the Hanging Gardens in this mix as well.
 
fallout3dc said:
new one...Temple of Athemis. It suffers Great Library syndrome. As in, it costs too much early to build, and not guaranteed, and limiting growth for the first 100 turns isn't going to pay off in the end. If you want more growth, focus on growth. I'll throw the Hanging Gardens in this mix as well.
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Nope! ToA is awesome! Faster arshers and early engineer points. And it's beautiful!


Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk
 
The Temple of Artemis is something you rarely get to try for, but when you do, it is very nice to have. It's a little different than GL, in that when you (perhaps I should say I) usually get it, you've already completed your NC so you are not sacrificing to get it. Or at least that is how I've always played.

GL on the other hand can pretty much only be done if sacrificing due to how early it has to be made.
 
fallout3dc said:
new one...Temple of Athemis. It suffers Great Library syndrome. As in, it costs too much early to build, and not guaranteed, and limiting growth for the first 100 turns isn't going to pay off in the end. If you want more growth, focus on growth. I'll throw the Hanging Gardens in this mix as well.
Click to expand...

I always try to build both. The combination frees up your caravans for gold generation/influencing city states/late game diplomacy bonus/boosting second city. Not to mention if your capital doesn't have access to sea. Makes for a very comfortable game once those are in the bag IMO.
 
First, I would need to ask what constitutes "overrated"? As in, least worth the hammers it takes to build it? Or the one that everyone else thinks is so great but actually it's blah at best?

If it's the least value for the hammers, I have to go with Borobudur. I would rather an AI built it and sent his missionaries my way. Yay! A chance to get another religion.

If it's the latter, I think Big Ben. Gold purchasing is like purchasing hammers, but you just plunked down a whopping 750 hammers just to build it. You really think that 15% discount is going to make those 750 hammers back? Let's do the math: assuming a 3:1 gold-to-hammer ratio, you're going to have to save 2250 gold with this just to break even. Meaning you will have to make 2250/.15 = 15000 in gold purchases. And I'm really not interested in just breaking even. I don't even WANT the +2 GM points either, unless maybe I'm Venice.
 
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