Preorders, DLC, and Bears oh my!

Horizons said:

I throw my weight behind those complaining about 2K games' behaviour concerning all these releases.

I pre-ordered Civ 5 Delux from Steam but had I known that D2D would offer a version with two free civs I would have got that instead.

Thanks for nothing. This is a really bad way to do business and sell your new game. I hope other companies do not behave like this with new releases.

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You can cancell a pre-order on Steam, you can't cancell a Pre-order on D2D though its worth mentioning.

And this is not a problem with 2k's business practices, it always happens in life that you buy something from somewhere then you go to the shop next to it and find you could of got a better deal, its all about window shopping, perhaps it is you who should change your way you do business and "look around" before purchasing.

Besides its not 2k's fault that D2D decided to give away freebies with the game, 2k isn't forcing them to, they are decreasing thier own profits to make sales. 2k will get the same profit wise, it was not 2k's decision to allow D2D to say "hey buy civ5 from me and I will give you hugs and kisses"

2K Elizabeth said:

Dale -

Pricing works in different ways depending on where you are, what store you are buying from, etc. Yelling at Greg isn't going to change that or give you any more insight into global pricing structures. Pricing for products everywhere fluctuate, and while that isn't a perfect answer to your question, I don't have a perfect answer to your question. We're not ignoring you - but it's not something I have a more detailed response for.

If you have other qualms with this, please feel free to email me directly at 2KElizabeth@2KGames.com.

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You are absolutely right, yelling at Greg does not change anything, or give any insight into global pricing structures, BECAUSE WE NEVER GET ANY ANSWERS FROM GREG AT ALL ON THE IMPORTANT QUESTIONS WE HAVE BEEN ASKING FOR MONTHS.
It really seems that the entire effort at 2K is to bury the important questions in trivia.

Guys, don't get angry at Greg, he's human too, and might not even know the answer before talking to others in 2K

Dale,
Isn't part of the reason why we pay so much for games here because we have crazy high taxes for games sales in Australia?

The lesson is - don't preorder games before you need to.

Dale,
Isn't part of the reason why we pay so much for games here because we have crazy high taxes for games sales in Australia?

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GST. Crazy high at 10%.

It's interesting that Dale has not made any more mention of the mysterious 47% luxury tax.

12agnar0k said:

You can cancell a pre-order on Steam, you can't cancell a Pre-order on D2D though its worth mentioning.

And this is not a problem with 2k's business practices, it always happens in life that you buy something from somewhere then you go to the shop next to it and find you could of got a better deal, its all about window shopping, perhaps it is you who should change your way you do business and "look around" before purchasing.

Besides its not 2k's fault that D2D decided to give away freebies with the game, 2k isn't forcing them to, they are decreasing thier own profits to make sales. 2k will get the same profit wise, it was not 2k's decision to allow D2D to say "hey buy civ5 from me and I will give you hugs and kisses"

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You've totally missed the point. It was 2K Games' decision to siphon off large parts of the core game and release them as zero-day downloadable content. It absolutely stinks and these companies wouldn't have been able to offer these 'exclusives' if it hadn't been for that decision.

Horizons said:

You've totally missed the point. It was 2K Games' decision to siphon off large parts of the core game and release them as zero-day downloadable content. It absolutely stinks and these companies wouldn't have been able to offer these 'exclusives' if it hadn't been for that decision.

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3 civilizations and 2 map packs certainly are 'large parts of the core game' *rolls eyes*.

In a game where random maps rule the day, map packs are a bit moot imo. Also the core game offers you a decent enough experience in so far that the game can be played out normally, right?

PieceOfMind said:

The lesson is - don't preorder games before you need to.


GST. Crazy high at 10%.

It's interesting that Dale has not made any more mention of the mysterious 47% luxury tax.

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Actually if you knew anything about the FTA with USA you'd know the agreement was to remove tariffs over a period up to and including 2015. It wasn't instant.

http://www.austrade.gov.au/default.aspx?Mode=BusyEditing&ArticleID=8310#Tariffs

Horizons said:

You've totally missed the point. It was 2K Games' decision to siphon off large parts of the core game and release them as zero-day downloadable content. It absolutely stinks and these companies wouldn't have been able to offer these 'exclusives' if it hadn't been for that decision.

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No I'm afraid it was you who missed the point, The things given around as "0-day DLC", are bablyon + some map packs, the reason why you are moaning at 2k is because D2D now has a better offer than the one you paid for with Steam, this is not down to 2k, D2D made the decision to give extra freebies that are about the core game content. The reason the D2D offer is better is because you will get the first DLC pack free, which will come out months after release, and you get Civ3 complete, again nothing to do with release day downloadble content. D2D's "zero-day downloadable content" as some people call it, though technically its not DLC, is limited to Bablyon + pre-order bonus map packs, and Steam's DE has more of these than D2D's. So the reason you are moaning about getting a "bad deal" has nothing to do with "zero-day exlusivities" and more to do with D2D offering more content not to do with core content on day zero.

2KGreg: I wonder what will happen when a player with Babylon starts a game with a player who dont have Babylon? And the same thing for the map packs.

I can not believe the level of moaning and complaining that has been going on in this forum. These companies are offering extra content for FREE, and you are all acting as if they've done something terrible. Think, there are two ways things could have happened...

1. No-one offers any bonus pre-order content. You pay for the game, and get the standard 18 civs and no bonus maps. When the DLC is released, those who want it buy it, those who don't think it's worth the money don't.

2. Retailers decide to give bonus's to those who pre-order. You get the same stuff as above, however you also get something additional FOR FREE.

Things like this happen all the time. I got interested in StarTrek Online before it launched (it is terrible by the way), but they had a similar system where some retailers would offer a unique costume if you pre-ordered through them, others might offer a new race to play as etc. And everyone on their forums thought it was great. There were threads where people would discuss which one they were going to go for. People would way the pros and cons of each deal. You get to pick something that would be a cool addition for you, and (yes i feel i have to repeat myself again) you get it FOR FREE. The alternative? You get nothing.

Now, to continue my example, there will be no compatibility problems at all. If you chose to buy the deluxe addition for Babylon, but your friend didn't, you will both be able to play together. The difference? You will have the option to play as Babylon and he won't! It's as simple as that.

As for missing out? Anything that is DLC will be available to everyone eventually.

As for non-DLC bonuses, nothing company specific will be important enough to get worked up about, because the developers know that no-one wants to buy multiple copies. Company specific stuff will be map packs and minor stuff, no full Civs, nothing to really miss.

The only non-company specific, non-DLC bonus is Babylon. It will not necessarily be offered at a later date, because that would make buying the Deluxe edition pointless and be unfair to those who did. But no-one has to miss out, because everyone has the option to buy it, and every retailer that sells the standard game will almost certainly also sell the Deluxe edition, along with their own company-specific promotions.

The bottom line is:

-If you like Civ5, buy it, if you don't think it's worth the money, then don't.
-If you believe that Babylon is worth an extra $10 to you, then get the Deluxe edition, if you don't then don't
-If you really like the offers a particular company is making, then buy it from them, but in the long run it's really not likely to matter at all.
-Stop whining like a bunch of little girls.

And don't even get me started on all the pointless complaining about Steam...

Moderator Action: Flaming - warned
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

CladInShadows said:

Now, to continue my example, there will be no compatibility problems at all. If you chose to buy the deluxe addition for Babylon, but your friend didn't, you will both be able to play together. The difference? You will have the option to play as Babylon and he won't! It's as simple as that.

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How do you know? I'd rather suspect that those games will not include Babylon at all - neither me playing that Civ nor it being played by an AI, since the stuff won't be installed on my friend's computer.

Horizons said:

You've totally missed the point. It was 2K Games' decision to siphon off large parts of the core game and release them as zero-day downloadable content. It absolutely stinks and these companies wouldn't have been able to offer these 'exclusives' if it hadn't been for that decision.

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Extra civs and maps are not "large parts of the core game". Civ4 also included 18 civs.

CladInShadows said:

Stop whining like a bunch of little girls.

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Better you stop offending people like a little boy.

Civilization fans are extremely loyal, and the hardcore fans would be willing to give T2 a lot of money blindly for a complete Collector's Edition, as in former years for former Civ versions like this one:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000BI4GP6

But this time loyal customers find that there is no complete Collector's Edition for Civ5. Instead the Civ5 content splits up to a "Deluxe Edition" (with Babylon) and a "Special Edition" (with an Artbook) and a D2D Edition (with more Civs) and who knows how much more extra DLC will come up for the release.

IMHO this is a lesson about how loyal customers are treated badly, making them uncertain about buying, trying to lure more money out of them by splitting release material. Probably nobody here has problems with extra DLC AFTER release, but splitting release material and the community IMHO is a terrible decision.

Moderator Action: Flaming - warned
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

Pouakai said:

I wouldn't be complaining Dale, it's $100 for the standard edition here with free shipping from Mightyape.co.nz

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Isn't that a key reason for us to keep up the complaints as well

Just to reinforce Dale's point, it's clearly got very little if anything to do with mysterious Australian specific taxes, or perhaps anything specific to Australia. New Zealand is also subject to the same (what appears to be an arbitrary) price increase from Steam, and NZ has different taxes, laws, etc. Either this is NZ and Australia being seperately rorted, or some sort of regional rort. Anyone got a Fijian or a Tongan proxy or something?

(and ignoring the even further inflated in store prices)

Copypost:

US 50 - $72NZ <-US Steam

US 80 - $115NZ <-NZ Steam
US 90 (Deluxe) - $128NZ <-NZ Steam


(Footnote: NZ is in fact, a different country, almost as far from Australia (average 2200km) as Turkey or Russia is from England).

Dale said:

That may fly for brick and mortar where multiple handlers will add their small markups (though even GameHead, a game's importer and wholesaler has the price at $82.75 AUD == $72.56 USD), but how do you explain Steam's price difference? Both prices are in the same USD denomination, the bits of 1's and 0's are the same, the download location is the same, the version is the same, the retailer is the same, yet the consumer price is almost double.

I find it ironic that publishers can complain bitterly over how Australia has the highest piracy rates in the World, yet at the same time set the highest prices in the World. Coincidence?

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Aussie_Lurker said:

I'm with you Dale. The extra cost made sense about 5-6 years ago, when the Australian Dollar was worth a lot less & when I was buying it from a B&M outlet. I just figured it was allowing for Shipping Costs & the difference in currency. Yet when you have parity in our dollars *and* you're buying from an online source, then all these arguments fall away. Don't get me wrong, I will probably buy the game-from a B&M outlet, but I'm still not happy about the extra cost!

Aussie.

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The point I made above was that once it has become "tradition" that a game has a certain price in local currency, it will take a lot for that price to shift due to currency fluctuations etc - the same thing is happening to EU customers, as I described above. In your case, if it has become the norm 5-10 years ago that games cost AU$ 80-90, then companies will continue charging that for a while irrespective of what that equates to in US$.

We can agree it sucks, that it's not fair, and that the markup is completely out of sync with actual costs (especially for download version) - I'm just saying why the pricing is set as it is. And that 2K probably have very little to do with it.

Tylerryan79 said:

Can someone living in the US gift Civ V to someone in Australia, with the US price? If so do you guys know anyone state side you could trust with the $50 or so bucks.

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I think this is a smart idea and it could be a terrific CF community initiative for helping Australian users. All needed for this would be a trusted member of this community forum, living in the USA. This is how it could work:

1. Trusted US member creates a "CivFanatics Civ5-" Paypal account and publishes the "CivFanatics Civ5-" Paypal address in this forum
   
2. AUS inhabitant sends payment for the desired US Civ5 version combined with his/her Steam username to CivFanatics" Paypal address/account
   
3. After receiving the Paypal money, US member purchases Steam version and gifts it to AUS inhabitant.

More info about Steam gifts:
https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=6262-QXCN-0755

Dale said:

Actually if you knew anything about the FTA with USA you'd know the agreement was to remove tariffs over a period up to and including 2015. It wasn't instant.

http://www.austrade.gov.au/default.aspx?Mode=BusyEditing&ArticleID=8310#Tariffs

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So now it's a tariff instead of a luxury tax. Thank you for the link.

I am however still doubtful of the 47% claim you made. Is there anyone or anywhere at all other than yourself who/that can corroborate your position?

Even something describing what these tariffs were in the past (before US FTA entered the scene) would help. Figures I am looking for.

Also, I don't understand something... If you're arguing this tariff or tax is real, aren't you pretty much answering your own question? You're asking 2K (quite loudly) why the price is so much higher here and then telling me the reason for 47% of the 60%. It doesn't make sense.