Slaves, Hostages and Prisoners of War

Nimek said:
No. Total War is old mod but it has very neat ideas

good slavery system is one of them.

I dont think that we need another special unit to capture slaves like in archids mod.

In Total Wae mod are others neat ideas
- capture spies and torture them
- free city after capture (similar to civ5)
- creating monopoles on resources

If you want to test that mod play on warlord/prince
this mod is difficult and brings a lot of new concepts
Click to expand...

I just found an old version of it (the one linked to on the forum wont uncompress). I have spent the afternoon getting to terms with the religion system. Which seems almost as random as vanilla but greatly more complex.

The slavery system is OK but does not go quite as far as I would like. The only thing that it has that we haven't thought of is the stuff to do with loyalty. At least the C code is there so we may be able to pillage AI unlike WLBO which also has interesting ideas but no code.
 
- capture spies and torture them
Click to expand...

@DH

I would love to see that option in C2C - It is realistic and add some new depth to the espionage.

In Civ 4 captured spies are hang automaticly. In TW you decide what to doo with captured spy. He can be double agen, YOu can torture him and et some :espionage:

Please consider it :)

. The only thing that it has that we haven't thought of is the stuff to do with loyalty
Click to expand...

You talking about city governor loyalty or units morale?

city governor loyalty is cool. Is saw mod component that city can be captured without fight
(during war time) when city governor is not loyal.

One last thing

I love City capture screen from Total war.
It is more clear and intuitive than current one. It gives posibility to add many options after city capture. This is what we want to do. (like slave captue, burn buildings and leave etc)
 
I would be against Torture in C2C personally, as it could offend people. However, the other ideas suggested so far for slaves sound very interesting.
 
ls612 said:
I would be against Torture in C2C personally, as it could offend people. However, the other ideas suggested so far for slaves sound very interesting.
Click to expand...

In a way torture is already in.. orwhere doyouthink the :espionage:from killed attackers given by the dungeon comes from ;)
 
There is currently the "Sacrifice" option for units if you have a sacrificial alter. Which is for all units. However Nimek was talking about interrogating spies. This thread is about slaves and we have sacrifice of slaves under the mission "speed construction". The options in the "Total War" mod are:-
  • Free Slave (gives food to the city. The amount varies.)
  • Sacrifice for building boost (C2C already has this see speed construction.)
  • Sell at market (gives money. The amount varies)
  • Give to city governor to increase city loyalty (C2C does not have this game concept.)

The amount of :food:, :hammers: or :gold: given varies due to civics and buildings present in the city. All of this can be done using the new Mission calls event system which uses python. It is a bit more complicated than just using the existing XML tags for the values since using them makes the game thing the unit is a type of Great Person and assigns GP actions/missions to the unit.
 
Dancing Hoskuld said:
The amount of :food:, :hammers: or :gold: given varies due to civics and buildings present in the city. All of this can be done using the new Mission calls event system which uses python. It is a bit more complicated than just using the existing XML tags for the values since using them makes the game thing the unit is a type of Great Person and assigns GP actions/missions to the unit.
Click to expand...
It should not assign GP actions unless the XML tag for that specific action is set (like a great work culture that is not 0).

If you mainly want to call a Python function when the mission is used then I can also just add a Python callback to the outcome itself.
 
AIAndy said:
It should not assign GP actions unless the XML tag for that specific action is set (like a great work culture that is not 0).
Click to expand...

Which was my "ah ha!' moment last night about Story Tellers which means that we need new tags for the line or I just put it (the values) in the code.

AIAndy said:
If you mainly want to call a Python function when the mission is used then I can also just add a Python callback to the outcome itself.
Click to expand...

Being able to call a python function with parameters from the outcome itself might be good. What sort are we talking about?
 
Dancing Hoskuld said:
Being able to call a python function with parameters from the outcome itself might be good. What sort are we talking about?
Click to expand...
These 3 parameters while only the first is important for outcome missions (the other two only matter for kill outcomes):
CvUnit &kUnit, PlayerTypes eDefeatedUnitPlayer, UnitTypes eDefeatedUnitType
 
AIAndy said:
These 3 parameters while only the first is important for outcome missions (the other two only matter for kill outcomes):
CvUnit &kUnit, PlayerTypes eDefeatedUnitPlayer, UnitTypes eDefeatedUnitType
Click to expand...

OK looks good, but my brain is not functioning properly this morning so I am not making links properly, so I may have to get back to you on this later. Basically what is currently used are the GP functions
  • hurry construction (G Engineer) - no problems here
  • trade mission (G Merchant) - not exactly what we want for slaves as there are different multipliers based on civic and buildings present. So no problem here, just add new mission with the correct unit.
  • increase culture (G Artist) - problems due to the remove all anarchy. Knowing the unit would be enough but then if we want to change values it would require Python changes not XML.
  • add food (new) - slaves (and food caravans) join as population ie food again varies with civics and buildings present (C2C does not have the AI for this either)
 
Dancing Hoskuld said:
OK looks good, but my brain is not functioning properly this morning so I am not making links properly, so I may have to get back to you on this later. Basically what is currently used are the GP functions
  • hurry construction (G Engineer) - no problems here
  • trade mission (G Merchant) - not exactly what we want for slaves as there are different multipliers based on civic and buildings present. So no problem here, just add new mission with the correct unit.
  • increase culture (G Artist) - problems due to the remove all anarchy. Knowing the unit would be enough but then if we want to change values it would require Python changes not XML.
  • add food (new) - slaves (and food caravans) join as population ie food again varies with civics and buildings present (C2C does not have the AI for this either)
Click to expand...
Outcome missions can add both yields and commerces and all of them can be expressions (so they can also depend on buildings and civics).
 
I know slavery is going to be changed to a labor civic but as is the slave specialist seems too strong. I think there should be a cap on how many you can have. Basically all of my cities / AI cities love these specialists and spam them. Especially early game the hammers are super powerful, combined with the civic that gives you +1 gold per specialist they are 1:food: 2:hammers: 1:commerce: You can easily have 20 of them early game with some free specialist buildings and slave market etc. So you end up with like +40-50:hammers: ( This is before modifiers too, so it'd end up more like +100:hammers:
Either a cap on how many you can have or some sort of penalty like +.3:yuck: +.3:mad:
 
I've not seen any mention of how slave units would be affected by the Slave Revolt Event. Would they change from slave workers to warriors or would they not be affected at all?

Or would the event be removed to allow for the new slavery expansion?
 
PsiCorps said:
I've not seen any mention of how slave units would be affected by the Slave Revolt Event. Would they change from slave workers to warriors or would they not be affected at all?

Or would the event be removed to allow for the new slavery expansion?
Click to expand...

We have wanted to have slave and serf revolts to spawn "barbarian" units that go about and plunder your nation. Unfortunately The Great Wall would make you almost immune to the effects and the suggestions I and Vokarya have put up to replace this wonder have not been acceptable. Another suggestion is to have two types of Barbarians which would not be affected by the Great Wall and would be at peace with the other Barbarians. This "nation" would include those units we want to cross into all territories like the Revolting Slave units and Locusts.

I have just been reintroduced to the Total War's concept of slavery which has given me some other ideas and we are currently (for v28) looking at removing the Slavery civic completely, adding a new Labour civic and adjusting all civics to effect their attitude to slaves....

So back to your suggestion:- I think each specialist slave - should have a chance or revolting resulting in the loss of one population and the creation of 3 barbarian units. :mischief:
 
After playing with it as in C2C and trying out the Total War mod model, I have come to the conclusion that what we have just does not work. The following is still rough draft (RL is very likely to intrude at any moment.)

1) Slavery is not a civic - slaves exist today in many countries that say they have abolished slavery.

2) No settled slave or settled citizen specialists. These are not needed.

3) From the invention of Slavery (the tech) until you enact the "Emancipation" Ordinance you can have slaves the affects of which vary with tech, civics and state religion.

4) In war you may take captives.
  • Captives - Military are any military unit you capture
  • Captives - workers are workers
  • captives - citizens are captured settlers and population from raised cities.

Captive - Military
  • Pre-slavery tech these can be converted into your troops
  • With slavery you can also
    • sell them in a city
    • free them for a food boost = 1/5th of a population point
    • fast build - use slaves on a building
  • At Feudalism you can also
    • ransom them back
  • Post Emancipation Ordinance you can only
    • convert them to your troops
    • create a prisoner of war camp
    • ransom them back
    • exchange them for ones you lost

There are other things that vary this eg having a Save market in the city will increase the money earned from selling them.

Captive Workers are similar to Captive Military except they are workers who work faster than normal workers but may revolt and become rogue units pillaging improvements.

Captive Citizens can join the city as a full population point but will cause some rebelliousness (Rev on) or unhappiness (Rev off) for awhile, depending on base culture etc. They may bring their base culture with them giving it to you to build in that city only (if I can figure out how).
 
ls612 said:
I would be against Torture in C2C personally, as it could offend people. However, the other ideas suggested so far for slaves sound very interesting.
Click to expand...

Your far too sensitive to offending people. Life sucks and is full of horror. Most nations in history have been built with the suffering and blood of others. I just think things should be respresented as they are, no hidding from facts or politicaly correct nonsence as thats how historys forgoten. Why Im still supporting labour camps, suciside bombers and other controversal things. Plus if your that worried about causing offence why not just put it as a gameplay option? If you dont like it turn it off? That way if you wanna play a realitic gritty game you can or with you wanna play a PC happy care bear game you can, that way both camps of people are happy :goodjob:
 
Perhaps when you 'capture' an enemy military unit that is lead by one of the various leader (noble, warlord, etc...) units we could have the option to ransom them back for :gold:
 
crazyewok said:
Your far too sensitive to offending people. Life sucks and is full of horror. Most nations in history have been built with the suffering and blood of others. I just think things should be respresented as they are, no hidding from facts or politicaly correct nonsence as thats how historys forgoten. Why Im still supporting labour camps, suciside bombers and other controversal things. Plus if your that worried about causing offence why not just put it as a gameplay option? If you dont like it turn it off? That way if you wanna play a realitic gritty game you can or with you wanna play a PC happy care bear game you can, that way both camps of people are happy :goodjob:
Click to expand...

:lol: I found that quite funny. I have no issue with that outcome, just call it Interrogate Prisoner.
 
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