Kazakhstan Diplomacy

New message from Kazakhstan.

Hello,

We are looking to source Metal Casting via other channels or teching it ourselves. We would prefer to exhaust these other options first before asking you to tech it for us.

How does the following trade work for you instead?

Saturn gives:
Part1: Archery
Part 2: Feudalism

Kazakhstan gives:
Part 1: Iron Working
Part 1: Alphabet
Part 2: Mathematics

This trade works our very slightly in our favour in terms of :science: but hopefully the fact we are giving two higher value techs upfront will compensate for this.

You have a source of iron nearby so we'll be happy to give you IW in the first phase of exchanges for you to benefit from this.

Feudalism will also be more useful to you as a tech for exchanging with other civilisations as you will most likely be the first to obtain it.

What do you say? If you agree then propose the Archery for IW and Alphabet trade to us in-game and make a start on Feudalism as agreed.

Sorry for the delayed response. Hopefully it's been worth the wait!

Kaleb the Kazakh
My first thought: bloody heck, why do they have to delay us even longer? We can't pause forever, and we have to decide on a new tech! :mad:

Then again, it's nice of them to offer Alphabet. Could be good to grab, especially since MS don't seem to want to research it (see other thread...).
 
I lit up after reading it following Mad Scientists thread. Offering us Alphabet with those guys being willing but unable to help us is huge. Metal Casting wouldn't be very big anyway, I don't mind getting Feudalism instead. I'm sure Alphabet with Mad Scientists will make up for any slight disadvantage in beakers this actual trade gives us.

Only issue is no Sailing, but we might be able to get that from MS instead.
 
On second thoughts, I think a revised version of this could be a really nice trade. Alphabet will allow us to trade with MS, so we'll be able to get even more techs there. Feudalism isn't quite so useful for us though.

BUT - from what MS have said, it seems they have Mathematics. So we should try to remove that from the equation, so as not to double up! (We can trade them Alphabet for Maths or something.) Maybe we should also check whether MS has Iron Working?

Archery + Metal Casting for Alphabet + Iron Working is looking like a real winner though, if Kaz will accept.
 
Kaz already said they don't need Metal Casting from us. In the interest of not running out of time, I think we should agree with that. MC wouldn't terribly help us out too much anyway, we don't really have the hammers to spare to build forges. I mean, more helpful than Polytheism or Horseback Riding, but still not that great.

Mathematics still isn't a bad tech, I'm sure MS will like have other techs to offer anyway so we don't need to obtain it from them. I think we should accept the deal, get Alphabet right away before they change their mind.


By the way, I went and checked and Feudalism will take 16 turns to research, not counting turns spent at 0%.
 
Honestly, I would take the deal that Kaz proposed.

1. It's already pre-set, so the time wasted in planning is minimized.
2. We get techs immediately, so maybe other teams who meet us soon think we're more advanced than we really are.
3. As Kaz mentioned (or hinted), we might be the first to Feudalism.
4. Feudalism could be useful in the future if we ever need longbows.
5. We have iron
 
Honestly, I would take the deal that Kaz proposed.

1. It's already pre-set, so the time wasted in planning is minimized.
2. We get techs immediately, so maybe other teams who meet us soon think we're more advanced than we really are.
3. As Kaz mentioned (or hinted), we might be the first to Feudalism.
4. Feudalism could be useful in the future if we ever need longbows.
5. We have iron

Plus it gives us access to tech trading with mad scientists immediately (which would be a big slow unnessecary pain for either of us otherwise) which I think is by far the biggest plus for accepting the deal as is.
 
Sure. I'm just concerned that Kaz is probably giving us the techs that MS already has, so we'll lose out on potential trades.

But yeah, the deal seems like a reasonable one - not great but pretty good. Probably worth taking it before they reconsider, like others have said. But it does mean a very late Mathematics for us, since we'll be denied the ability to trade with MS (unless we do it anyway and screw up the trade with Kaz).
 
Yeah, but perhaps they'll accept the Mathematics portion of the deal as a potential placeholder if we obtain it earlier, and be able to switch it out for a tech of equal or lesser value.

Unfortunately the only tech in the game with equal beaker value to mathematics is horseback riding... which with immortals it is pretty useless. Perhaps Polytheism + Monotheism instead. (220 combined compared to 250, slight loss, but not worth fussing about) Poly may be useless to us, but with Confuscianism Mono might not be.

Only if we get Mathematics sooner first, otherwise we might as well go with that.
 
See MS thread. 2/3 techs will be wasted. Is Archery + Feudalism for Alphabet really worth it?
 
The deal is reasonable, but not optimal. Lord Parkin has suggested better deals for us that might get accepted. However I don't want to wait another week to get optimal deal. This is kind of sad, but I suggest we accept assuming Mads gives us something for Alpha. This deal looks lot better, if we can get something out of Alpha, even if IW and Maths are probably owned by Mads already

Few things I considered:
* Feudalism is quite expensive tech and it takes a long time to research. Meanwhile our trading with others won't be that succesful since Feudalism has probably been offered to other teams. This will put as behind in techs for quite some time. However we've decent opportunity to find monopoly techs to research in the future so this shouldn't be a big obstacle. Furthermore we would also have plenty of time to find other teams.
* MS have certainly Maths since they're going for Calendar and probably also IW. However there isn't much what we can do with MS in the near future unless we research alpha ourselves that I think would be a mistake.
* Delaying Maths doesn't cost us much. There really aren't much forests to chop.
 
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So, the clock is ticking. Do we accept their offer or propose something different or what?

I think getting Iron Working and Alphabet right away is great, even if we won't be able to broker away IW. The only real change I think could be used is switching Math out with something else, but really, we specifically asked for mathematics in our last order, so I don't know if we should be too fickle. Depending on the mad scientist's tech situation, I think swapping out math for poly + mono could work, expecially if MS don't have those techs themselves.
 
Seriously, if no one voices a differing opinion we're going to have accept it. Time limit here dangit.
 
Yeah, let's just accept. Not much else we can do at the moment. Haven't got the time to think up a message right now, but someone else is welcome to do it instead. :)
 
I vote for accepting. This deal is not best attainable. However I don't see much point in optimizing, when every optimisation round takes a week or more. At least this deal gives us techs that are really useful, even if we lose of the trading value.
 
Yeah, let's just accept. Not much else we can do at the moment. Haven't got the time to think up a message right now, but someone else is welcome to do it instead. :)

My suggestion is just to quote their message and say that we accept the deal. We probably don't need to suggest anything else at this point.
 
Sent the following message:

Greetings Kazakhstan,

After much discussion we have decided to accept your proposal as it stands. No sense in causing further delays to the game by continued bartering.

We look forward to receiving Iron Working and Alphabet from you in exchange for Archery this turn. :)

Regards,
Lord Parkin of Saturn
 
EDIT: D'oh, should have read the rest of the forum before responding. ;)

Anyway, hopefully we'll be able to trade with Cav, SANCTA and MS for Feudalism. :)
 
Yes, we're still getting Maths from Kaz. I don't understand your second sentence.
 
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