SGOTM 15 - One Short Straw

Not sure what your plan is, but if it's feasible in tersm of coutner-attack, Hastings-London-Nottingham looks like the best path. New units will have a quick path to Canterbury and our units will loop around.

London and Nottingham are Lizzie's only 5000:culture: cities.

I agree - London's the most important one to get before she gets Physics (plus we get all the shiny wonders' effects).
 
I've played through to AD 1450, and captured two English cities.

The Walls in London have been sabotaged, so that city will be quick to bombard.
Each city has about 4 redcoats. There are still a couple of knights hanging around London, and 5 cats in the London-Nottingham region.

We conquered Persia this turn, so Persian War Weariness is still in effect. Next turn you might want to cancel the culture slider - although once English WW mounts up you could consider it again - it's only a small gold loss once our cities would be unhappy anyway, for a lot of food-hammers gained.

I haven't tripped our Golden Age yet - you might wait until next turn when some war weariness disappears.

There's a Spy in Delhi - who can galleon-chain back to the front after its successful mission. I've also started one in Beshbalik that can be whipped, to get eyes in the English back lines sooner - then the other one can investigate how badly Mansa Musa dotmapped his land - he's clearly missed out on his only coastal site.

The save is OPEN. Post a "Got it" if you're going to play.

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The save is OPEN. Post a "Got it" if you're going to play.
Yes, I think it would be good to establish a simple rule for tag-playing. For example:

1. Refresh the thread.
2. Post a Got it. (with no other text)
3. Refresh the thread to make sure no one else happened to post a Got it also.
4. Post a Playing.. post.
5. Play
 
ZPV said:
There's a Spy in Delhi - who can galleon-chain back to the front after its successful mission. I've also started one in Beshbalik that can be whipped, to get eyes in the English back lines sooner - then the other one can investigate how badly Mansa Musa dotmapped his land - he's clearly missed out on his only coastal site.
I'm a bit confused... are we sending one Spy back to Liz to perform a Sabotage mission or are we sending it to Mansa? Or are there 3 Spies?
 
I'm a bit confused... are we sending one Spy back to Liz to perform a Sabotage mission or are we sending it to Mansa? Or are there 3 Spies?

We have one spy. It recently sabotaged the walls in London and was teleported to Delhi.

We are building another, in case we want to see into England/sabotage something else before the Delhi one can return.
(In general, it's hard to bombard the Walls-Castle cities, even with all the siege we have, but sabotaging walls is a cheaper than a city revolt, and removes most of the bombardment defence - even with 5000:culture:, a castle without walls means it only takes about 7 Trebs to completely remove the defences in one turn.

Another option is to send a spy to Mansa if you wish, but that's really an afterthought.
 
So, just to clarify, since we've killed off everyone but Liz, Mansa, and Huayna, we're no longer going for an AP victory, right?

I mean, we could feasibly whip Liz' Cities into the ground, Liberate Cities to Liz, and then recapture them multiple times... :mischief:
 
Okay, so in looking at the saved game, I see that we have captured Hastings but there is a Redcoat SW of the City. What's the overall approach... where possible, we want to be on the offensive instead of on the defensive?


Also, are all troops still going toward Liz, as opposed to Mansa and/or Huayna?


If and when it becomes time to go after Mansa and/or Huayna, who do we go after first? Or do we go after both at the same time?


LowtherCastle said:
Hastings-London-Nottingham looks like the best path
So, we're sending the entire stack on this path, minus some defenders for Hastings, right? I mean, we're not splitting up our stack at all, correct?

At what point can we consider splitting our stack?

Does healing Catapults help? I.e. Do they do the same amount of collateral damage when wounded or are they much more effective when they are fully-healed?


40%/60% of Land Area... are you sure that you don't want to reconsider in terms of going for an AP victory?


Is there anything tricky that I need to know about the boat chains? It looks like a couple of boats already have a Grenadier on them each... I guess we load as many land units as we can onto the boats and then, near the end of the turn, transfer the units via the boat chain?


Do we really need population points? I mean, if we aren't going for an AP Victory, won't there be a point where we should whip many of our Cities to the bone, particularly some of the junkier Cities that don't have Courthouses? Do you think that this time is approaching soon?
 
Okay, so in looking at the saved game, I see that we have captured Hastings but there is a Redcoat SW of the City. What's the overall approach... where possible, we want to be on the offensive instead of on the defensive?


Also, are all troops still going toward Liz, as opposed to Mansa and/or Huayna?


If and when it becomes time to go after Mansa and/or Huayna, who do we go after first? Or do we go after both at the same time?



So, we're sending the entire stack on this path, minus some defenders for Hastings, right? I mean, we're not splitting up our stack at all, correct?

At what point can we consider splitting our stack?

Does healing Catapults help? I.e. Do they do the same amount of collateral damage when wounded or are they much more effective when they are fully-healed?


40%/60% of Land Area... are you sure that you don't want to reconsider in terms of going for an AP victory?


Is there anything tricky that I need to know about the boat chains? It looks like a couple of boats already have a Grenadier on them each... I guess we load as many land units as we can onto the boats and then, near the end of the turn, transfer the units via the boat chain?


Do we really need population points? I mean, if we aren't going for an AP Victory, won't there be a point where we should whip many of our Cities to the bone, particularly some of the junkier Cities that don't have Courthouses? Do you think that this time is approaching soon?

Overall approach? Our stack, on the attack is unstoppable by Liz.
Keep the stack together for now.
Having 5XP on a grenadier is important. Pinch really changes the odds.
Cats don't really need to heal, but if you want to use an injured one to bombard, that's fine too. You don't need to use them to get all the redcoats down to 9.7/14, but a few to start, and then use your judgement between Trebs and/or Grens. Those CR3 Grenadiers pack a punch - if you have the gold, upgrade the remaining CR3 axeman, and possibly use a GG to upgrade+promote another melee unit.

If we go for an AP victory, we need to take a lot of population away from Huayna. Doing that, cultivating a voting buddy, and then waiting for the AP timing to be right won't be any faster than conquering and expanding borders, without the added extra risk of going broke due to voting buddy war weariness.

All troops to Liz for now. It's not like they'll do any good shouting across the ocean.

Boat chains? Nothing really tricky - just some units get preloaded because they don't all enter the chain at the start. There are a couple of extra boats near Bulgar to play with.

Population points? They're what are going to pay for all our cities and units. We also need to be careful not to fall below the AP vote threshold. Sure, whip, but especially in the coming golden age, the production of an actual citizen will most likely be worth more than if you whip it away - big cities are powerful. I'd make exceptions near the front - many cities there are on a whipping cycle - small cities for catapults.
Even junker cities pay for themselves without a courthouse when they're large. Whipping away the citizens just make them more gold-negative.
Forges and markets when needed to keep citizens happy (and increase gold/wealth) are ok (i.e. when there are 2 or 3 unhappy faces), but courthouses are a great way for the governor to hire a spy instead of something we want, for not that much gold, especially if the citizens would otherwise be working. :p
 
ZPV said:
Population points? They're what are going to pay for all our cities and units. We also need to be careful not to fall below the AP vote threshold. Sure, whip, but especially in the coming golden age, the production of an actual citizen will most likely be worth more than if you whip it away - big cities are powerful. I'd make exceptions near the front - many cities there are on a whipping cycle - small cities for catapults.
So, we're still happy to stay in Slavery because we'll be whipping in a few Cities, or should we consider the occasional runs of Caste System and then whipping up to 5 turns later for any whipping that we needed to perform?

ZPV said:
but courthouses are a great way for the governor to hire a spy instead of something we want, for not that much gold, especially if the citizens would otherwise be working.
Is that another way of saying "don't whip Courthouses out of Happy citizens"?
 
So, we're still happy to stay in Slavery because we'll be whipping in a few Cities, or should we consider the occasional runs of Caste System and then whipping up to 5 turns later for any whipping that we needed to perform?


Is that another way of saying "don't whip Courthouses out of Happy citizens"?

1. If we had time to plan it properly, we'd run 5-turn bursts of Caste System. We don't, so I think Slavery wins out.
2. Yes.
 
By the way: GOT IT.


Also, we think that we're safe to end the current turn, as long as I don't whip any Buddhist population, without first making Peace with Liz? Should I be looking to see if I can grow any Cities over the course of the next 2 turns, perhaps at the cost of a slightly higher Cultural slider for this turn?
 
Playing.

I'm more worried about ending the turn... I'm not 100% certain, but I think that votes are counted at the end of the turn on which the voting option is proposed, but if not, then I may need higher population on the current turn, just in case Liz grows hers or something?
 
I think that the ideal way for boat chains to work is to have TWO boats at the start of the chain. If I'm not mistaken, doing so lets you move more units over time.

1. Not all the units get on the chain at the start - the first boat is not full.
2. Each boat gives us 4 forward movement point / 2 turns. We use them all, if the boats are full. An extra galleon at the start only allows us as much benefit as an unchained galleon.
 
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