45°38'N-13°47'E
Deity
I completely agree. Also revolution in first two eras spawn new civs like happened in the past: minorities becoming more important. Just think about all Mesopotamia civs
Revolution: what's your experience?
- Thread starter 45°38'N-13°47'E
- Start date
Would you clarify this please? I don't like launchers and I would deeply resent being forced to use one. I want to be able to switch back and forth between mods if I need to look up something.
All is explained here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=553056
If this is separate from the mod and can't be accessed from within the mod, I would QUIT THIS MOD COMPLETELY before it was implemented. If not, then you will have to explain better, because I'm really not understanding and it's making me very unhappy.
I wish you would leave some things alone. I feel this mod is very close to completion and doesn't need any radical changes right now.
Don't be! As for the interface, we will try to find a compromise. I don't want to break anything and it was just a proposal.
I can try to explain it better when I have more time but of course, I won't do anything without full team approval, and you're part of the team!
OK. I'm a little twitchy about some things. I have found that I am deeply opposed to anything that requires external files or programs. I don't really care for installers for mods (although I can understand situations where they might be needed) because they leave cruft behind, like in the Start Menu or in the Programs/Files Control Panel option. I also deleted Full of Resources from every single mod I have that has it, because I am that opposed to its automatically creating folders in My Documents as soon as it is selected and it is often the first map on a map list when changing mods.
Rezca
The Greatest Jaggi
I'm not really liking the idea of Game/BUG Options being taken out and put in the Launcher either. Using the launcher to assist in modifying values or things that would otherwise require digging deep into XML files and such, that I could be okay with. But forcing you to use it to adjust things we used to be able to do in-game whenever we liked? Please no.
Well, as this isn't the right topic, I have answered both of you here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=14016312#post14016312
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=14016312#post14016312
Resurrecting this for a couple of proposals. I'm playing some games now and I'm finding the Ancient Era is pretty unforgiving at the moment. Past that, things are fine. I'm getting an excellent lesson in the usage of Walls to maintain order.
There are two things I would like to add:
+3 local stability from Village Hall and all upgrades. This is a starting point. 3 stability will mostly stabilize a city in a small empire during the Ancient Era without a religion, without Slavery, with a good-size garrison and no problems with unhappiness (tough to do!).
Raise the cap from stability from garrisoned units. There is a stability bonus from garrisoned units; it's a power function, so you get diminishing returns from more units. However, there is a cap. The cap is 10 points of stability if the city is getting instability from nationality, and 15 if it is gaining stability. I would like to raise these caps by 5. Taking advantage of this requires committing lots of units to long-term city garrison duty, so I think it is a fair trade-off.
There are two things I would like to add:
+3 local stability from Village Hall and all upgrades. This is a starting point. 3 stability will mostly stabilize a city in a small empire during the Ancient Era without a religion, without Slavery, with a good-size garrison and no problems with unhappiness (tough to do!).
Raise the cap from stability from garrisoned units. There is a stability bonus from garrisoned units; it's a power function, so you get diminishing returns from more units. However, there is a cap. The cap is 10 points of stability if the city is getting instability from nationality, and 15 if it is gaining stability. I would like to raise these caps by 5. Taking advantage of this requires committing lots of units to long-term city garrison duty, so I think it is a fair trade-off.
45°38'N-13°47'E
Deity
Looks ok to me, I would have tried with 2 stability points for Village Hall but I'm sure you know what you're doing and I admit I like revolutions more than most people do.
Rezca
The Greatest Jaggi
45°38'N-13°47'E;14291166 said:Looks ok to me, I would have tried with 2 stability points for Village Hall but I'm sure you know what you're doing and I admit I like revolutions more than most people do.
Sounds good to me too.
There's not a lot of buildings that affect stability, actually I think the only one is the Tax Office currently? It has a minor penalty to stability, but that's the only building that influences stability in the game at the moment right?
thegreekweegee
Warlord
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2013
- Messages
- 292
Pretty much, yes. And it only makes a single point impact towards instability.
So yeah, buildings don't do anything when it comes to affecting revolutions.
45°38'N-13°47'E
Deity
Problem is that revolution is very hard to balance. I would suggest not touching that part to tell the truth. I have done it months ago and only after weeks of testing and because Revolutions were almost non existent before those changes. And they were mostly minor changes.
45°38'N-13°47'E;14291305 said:
I'm not touching anything else except Village Hall line and the garrison cap. I don't mind Revolutions being nasty if you are not working to alleviate them, but I feel you should have enough tools to control them if you work at it. Thus, I have chosen to add a few points to a fairly expensive building and allow you to use more units to maintain order, but you still have to train and commit those units.
<Nexus>
Traveler of the Multiverse
That just gives an idea of a new Wonder giving (say) +10 local stability. It could be (for example) The Bastille. Maybe you still want to add something to a tech to increase trick count
45°38'N-13°47'E
Deity
Raising this thread again. How's your recent experience with revolutions? Both for you and AI.
In my latest games revolutions are more annoying than really challenging for me, but I usually play with rev factor at 2.5 (default), maybe I should try 5 or 10. Especially after rev1042, it should be quite challenging because I've increased the number of rebel units/reinforcement being created. Now I think they actually have a chance to capture a human city, which they've never been capable of in my games.
I've made this latest change for humans only, in order not to cripple AI, but I wonder if I'm not mistaken. I mean, in my experience I've never seen AI run into much trouble with rebels. Sure, I've never seen half-planet empires by AI, but that's not my goal. But I've hardly seen a civilization being ripped by rebels, which in theory should happen (both for humans and AI). Empires rise and fall, but in civilization most of them only rise.
So what do you think?
In my latest games revolutions are more annoying than really challenging for me, but I usually play with rev factor at 2.5 (default), maybe I should try 5 or 10. Especially after rev1042, it should be quite challenging because I've increased the number of rebel units/reinforcement being created. Now I think they actually have a chance to capture a human city, which they've never been capable of in my games.
I've made this latest change for humans only, in order not to cripple AI, but I wonder if I'm not mistaken. I mean, in my experience I've never seen AI run into much trouble with rebels. Sure, I've never seen half-planet empires by AI, but that's not my goal. But I've hardly seen a civilization being ripped by rebels, which in theory should happen (both for humans and AI). Empires rise and fall, but in civilization most of them only rise.
So what do you think?
MechatronicJazz
Prince
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2007
- Messages
- 316
I usually see a couple large scale revolts in the AI in the very early game (or at least come across the results later). On the scale of a split in half or a complete turnover of cities. But those seem to be cases of AI that massively over-expand in the early to mid ancient era. Things settle down mostly after than and only become a problem again when overseas colonies become more common. Really, overseas colonies are constantly revolting from the AI and I think the default weight put on the colony modifier is too high. I think I've said this before, but I think distance should be the larger factor.
As far as facing revolts myself, I don't struggle much, even with large empires, unless I intentionally turn the rev factor up much higher. Main exception here again being the very early game if I try to expand super quickly. My problem then is that I usually see barb revolts that primarily raze cities, which is frustrating in later eras. Adding the mega civ pack helped, because I don't' literally max out the civs available anymore, but I still saw this problem in the last game where I tried to induce revolts. Anyway, I realize there probably isn't much you can do about that.
I agree that increasing the default rev factors for both human and AI is a good idea. Just watch for too much city razing.
As far as facing revolts myself, I don't struggle much, even with large empires, unless I intentionally turn the rev factor up much higher. Main exception here again being the very early game if I try to expand super quickly. My problem then is that I usually see barb revolts that primarily raze cities, which is frustrating in later eras. Adding the mega civ pack helped, because I don't' literally max out the civs available anymore, but I still saw this problem in the last game where I tried to induce revolts. Anyway, I realize there probably isn't much you can do about that.
I agree that increasing the default rev factors for both human and AI is a good idea. Just watch for too much city razing.
