AND2 and SVN Bug Reports - A New Dawn 2 ONLY

tasans said:

I'm pretty sure no one has nukes because I timed the completion of Manhattan project and the resolution voting just right
Anyway here is the save; I haven't managed to get the CTD yet, but I'll keep trying.
View attachment 340802

Edit: It seems I get something else now; If you play the save use the F35s in the carriers to Air strike the nearby Celtic capital. I always CTD when I do that.

Click to expand...

I've tried a few times but I haven't been able to reproduce your ctd. I can air strike celtic capital without any problem and I can continue playing.

tasans said:

One other thing. Stealth destroyers are doing nothing when enemy ships come near them. I was having destroyers on top of fisheries and enemy ships could come and pillage them without my ships doing anything. Also I can't see submarines with the Stealth destroyers.

Click to expand...

Ok, about stealth destroyers: I've done a bit of research in the forum and they are supposed to work that way because they are, well, stealth destroyers... You shouldn't use stealth units to defend your resources unless you're sure that everyone else is using mainly stealth units. Stealth units should be used anyway to see other stealth units, but they just can't defend a resource from non-stealth units. It's a bit odd, I know, but I don't think there's something to do about it.
On the other hand, I've made Stealth Destroyers and Fusion Destroyers able to see submarines because that should be their role IMO. Updated in rev 604.

These 2 bugs, have been a recurring item.

1) When attacking a stack of 2 or more units, with a 2 move unit, in its 2 movement territory, the said attacking unit will not be able to use its 2nd movement point. It maybe explained that it uses the 2nd to withdraw after the victory, but to me it doesn't work with when it attacks a single unit, an upon victory, its allowed the 2nd movement point.

2) The AI is positioning stacks of units, about 5 tiles away from its cities, and seem to just leave the stack of units there. They won't be moved to relieve the threatened city, and once the city is lost, they just sit there. I've had this happen in two games, one in my signature, when I took Rome. The 2nd occurrence happened in my current game, the stack only started to move once I started to attack it, and removed units. I think its getting stuck in some logic loop as to the best route to its destination., and as such, will just stay put.

3. I think its just the feature of terrain, Grassland and forest Marsh stops the fast worker from having 2 or 3 movement points. They can only have one movement point, and not the 2 or 3 it gets when moving through forest, hills, etc. Grassland and forest Marsh stops ALL units from using its multiple movement points.

4. Field promotions- These should apply once an individual combat is completed, so they are available to use in the next combat situation, when facing off against a multiple unit attack.

They currently don't provide healing, and that's fine, they are given emplace of experience, works fine. Its the applying at the end of all the combat. It will go though the results, saying won, won, won, won, LOST!! (ARRRGGHHH), THEN it starts to give out the battlefield promotions. I believe they should apply after the individual battle, and be available for use. Again this may be aesthetics or game play.

5. Clerks guild mouse over, doesn't in diplomatic screen, when talking to another leader, doesn't show what's consumed in the guild.

Seems like with the current SVN build vs last official release barbarian spawn rates and city creation is almost non-existant

Also not sure if its a bug or not but all the AI seem to be fixated in colonizing this one spot on my continent. Over and over they will try no matter how many times I declare war and mush them. Not just one AI but all of them and always this one spot despite there being lots of other open space.

Edit: Also the SC4 music should really be removed from the industrial+ eras. Just asking for trouble using another games music like that.

Combat Wombat said:

Seems like with the current SVN build vs last official release barbarian spawn rates and city creation is almost non-existant

Click to expand...

Which options, gamespeed, mapsize and difficulty level are you playing with? Are you using Barbarian World / Barbarian Civs or other barbarian options?

Combat Wombat said:

Also not sure if its a bug or not but all the AI seem to be fixated in colonizing this one spot on my continent. Over and over they will try no matter how many times I declare war and mush them. Not just one AI but all of them and always this one spot despite there being lots of other open space.

Click to expand...

This could be due to many factors; it never happened to me but it could be that AI thinks that this spot is important for some reason. Or it could be stuck in a loop like sometimes happens with nukes: sometimes AI drops many nukes on the same plot, although there isn't anything left there.

Combat Wombat said:

Edit: Also the SC4 music should really be removed from the industrial+ eras. Just asking for trouble using another games music like that.

Click to expand...

What's SC4 music? Is it copyrighted music from another game? I always turn off music when I play so I don't know what it is. Also, music was there from the start of RoM / AND I think, but of course if there are risks of copyright infringement, it should be removed.

45°38'N-13°47'E;12164785 said:

Which options, gamespeed, mapsize and difficulty level are you playing with? Are you using Barbarian World / Barbarian Civs or other barbarian options?

Click to expand...

normal speed, 240x152, noble, barbarian generals. I didn't encounter more than 1 barbarian warrior till I was in medieval era. In a game like this I would have expected to deal with several barbarian cities on a continent similar to the size I was on. Barbarian animals are the same as usual.

45°38'N-13°47'E;12164785 said:

What's SC4 music? Is it copyrighted music from another game? I always turn off music when I play so I don't know what it is. Also, music was there from the start of RoM / AND I think, but of course if there are risks of copyright infringement, it should be removed.

Click to expand...

Yeah its not new. Been in there for awhile I just don't get around to posting here much. Heh and going and looking in Rise of Mankind - A New Dawn\Assets\Sounds\Afforess\Soundtrack they are all still labeled with names indicating that they come from Sim City 3000 and Sim City 4

Hi!

SVN 606

#1 : The Divine Proptherts feature is broken.
- Option not appears when you start a new game. Its always on.
- Victory Conditions shows TXT_KEY_GAMEOPTION_DIVIE_PROPHETS
- Great prophet cannot found a religion
- It's VERY unbalanced : religion can be found very late

Balancing advise :
- first discoverer...
...should get 1 (maxbe 2) free priest and/or an 1 (maybe 2) extra priest slot in that city where originally the reigion would be founded
OR
...should get a free Great Prophet
- all religion civics expect Floklore shoud add an extra priest slot.


#2 Fractional points / rounding problem
No fractional points? What are the rounding rules? Seems fractional part is truncated, not mathematical rounded.
Early game became very unbalanced.
Eg :
- you get +3 birth rate form specialist and you get -50% from caste civics : in total now you get only +1 bith rate.
- your production is 4 and you get -10% from proletariat civics : in total now you production is 3.
etc...

E_Pluribus_Unum said:

Hi!

SVN 606

#1 : The Divine Proptherts feature is broken.
- Option not appears when you start a new game. Its always on.
- Victory Conditions shows TXT_KEY_GAMEOPTION_DIVIE_PROPHETS
- Great prophet cannot found a religion
- It's VERY unbalanced : religion can be found very late

Balancing advise :
- first discoverer...
...should get 1 (maxbe 2) free priest and/or an 1 (maybe 2) extra priest slot in that city where originally the reigion would be founded
OR
...should get a free Great Prophet
- all religion civics expect Floklore shoud add an extra priest slot.


#2 Fractional points / rounding problem
No fractional points? What are the rounding rules? Seems fractional part is truncated, not mathematical rounded.
Early game became very unbalanced.
Eg :
- you get +3 birth rate form specialist and you get -50% from caste civics : in total now you get only +1 bith rate.
- your production is 4 and you get -10% from proletariat civics : in total now you production is 3.
etc...

Click to expand...

Will check for DP being always On.

If you do not have a Religion Civic that allows a State religion then No you can not found the religion till you get a Civic that will allow it. Even though you researched the Tech that gave the religion 1st.

All fractions are rounded down.

As for Balance advice: It will be considered, but.... Balance is one thing that has been worked on for sometime. Don't expect much movement.

JosEPh

E_Pluribus_Unum said:

Hi!

Click to expand...

Hi, nice to see you're still around!

E_Pluribus_Unum said:

#1 : The Divine Proptherts feature is broken.
- Option not appears when you start a new game. Its always on.
- Victory Conditions shows TXT_KEY_GAMEOPTION_DIVIE_PROPHETS
- Great prophet cannot found a religion
- It's VERY unbalanced : religion can be found very late

Click to expand...

There's no Divine Prophets option in AND2. It's a cache problem. I bet you were playing lately with some previous AND version (1.76 or AND2 beta2) or possibly with C2C. Clear the cache, restart the game and you'll see no Divine Prophets option. It's a leftover in the dll that's causing the problem, I'll have to remove part of the code. This will solve all of the above.

E_Pluribus_Unum said:

Balancing advise :
- first discoverer...
...should get 1 (maxbe 2) free priest and/or an 1 (maybe 2) extra priest slot in that city where originally the reigion would be founded
OR
...should get a free Great Prophet
- all religion civics expect Floklore shoud add an extra priest slot.

Click to expand...

Same as above.

E_Pluribus_Unum said:

#2 Fractional points / rounding problem
No fractional points? What are the rounding rules? Seems fractional part is truncated, not mathematical rounded.
Early game became very unbalanced.
Eg :
- you get +3 birth rate form specialist and you get -50% from caste civics : in total now you get only +1 bith rate.
- your production is 4 and you get -10% from proletariat civics : in total now you production is 3.
etc...

Click to expand...

Game unbalance is almost surely caused by that problem you had with DP, try it again. As for rounding problems, I am actually not sure how points are rounded, but you could be right, fractional part might be truncated. I'll have to look deeper into this but it might take a while to fix this part (unless I find that's already been fixed in C2C and I can import code from C2C).

Edit: 'd by JosEPh_II

Some balancing / tweaking proposal :

- Space Flight gives the Hubble Space Telescope and Satellistes gives the Apollo Program. It shoud be inversely. (It's a very old "bug")
- Irrigation canal and Leeve are too strong. Shoud give only +0.5.
- Elephant riding and Horserback riding? They are too specific. They should be merged into Animal husbandary. (raise the cost of AH?)
- Horse breeding? It's too specific. It shoud be just "Breeding" and also it shoud give +1 food bonus for Butchery (or something like that).
- Mounted archery? It's too specific. It shold be merged into Military training.
- Armoerd cavarly? It's too specific. It shold be merged into Armor crafting.
- Standing army civics should be get by Constitution.
- Carography should be researched earlyer. Requires only Mathematics or Calendar.
- Caste system and Divine cult : -50% BR is too big. It should be -33%.



Put on a vote on this suggestions?

JosEPh_II said:

If you do not have a Religion Civic that allows a State religion then No you can not found the religion till you get a Civic that will allow it. Even though you researched the Tech that gave the religion 1st.

Click to expand...

Actually you CAN found a religion, whatever civic you might have. You can not CONVERT to that religion you've founded, unless you have the right civic.
Founding religions very late in E_Pluribus_Unum's game is due to Divine Prophets being accidentally activated (due to the cache problem I explained), not due to balancing/techs/civics. If you can't found a religion unless you have a Great Prophet (as in Divine Prophets), it's obvious that you will found religions very late. That's the reason why DP was removed from the game in first place.

Thanx, I'll check it. How can I clear the cache?

E_Pluribus_Unum said:

Some balancing / tweaking proposal :

- Space Flight gives the Hubble Space Telescope and Satellistes gives the Apollo Program. It shoud be inversely. (It's a very old "bug")
- Irrigation canal and Leeve are too strong. Shoud give only +0.5.
- Elephant riding and Horserback riding? They are too specific. They should be merged into Animal husbandary. (raise the cost of AH?)
- Horse breeding? It's too specific. It shoud be just "Breeding" and also it shoud give +1 food bonus for Butchery (or something like that).
- Mounted archery? It's too specific. It shold be merged into Military training.
- Armoerd cavarly? It's too specific. It shold be merged into Armor crafting.
- Standing army civics should be get by Constitution.
- Carography should be researched earlyer. Requires only Mathematics or Calendar.
- Caste system and Divine cult : -50% BR is too big. It should be -33%.



Put on a vote on this suggestions?

Click to expand...

There is another option. You could make a Modmod for AND2.0 that implements your suggestions. Then anyone that wanted to could use them.

JosEPh

45°38'N-13°47'E;12171167 said:

Actually you CAN found a religion, whatever civic you might have. You can not CONVERT to that religion you've founded, unless you have the right civic.
Founding religions very late in E_Pluribus_Unum's game is due to Divine Prophets being accidentally activated (due to the cache problem I explained), not due to balancing/techs/civics. If you can't found a religion unless you have a Great Prophet (as in Divine Prophets), it's obvious that you will found religions very late. That's the reason why DP was removed from the game in first place.

Click to expand...

When I typed "found religion" I was thinking being able to use the religion, ie convert to that religion. ;p

To clear cache either hold down the Shift key while the Mod is loading.
Or Start a Play Now game with the mod let it load and then quit and start your intended custom game.

JosEPh

E_Pluribus_Unum said:

Some balancing / tweaking proposal :

- Space Flight gives the Hubble Space Telescope and Satellistes gives the Apollo Program. It shoud be inversely. (It's a very old "bug")
- Irrigation canal and Leeve are too strong. Shoud give only +0.5.
- Elephant riding and Horserback riding? They are too specific. They should be merged into Animal husbandary. (raise the cost of AH?)
- Horse breeding? It's too specific. It shoud be just "Breeding" and also it shoud give +1 food bonus for Butchery (or something like that).
- Mounted archery? It's too specific. It shold be merged into Military training.
- Armoerd cavarly? It's too specific. It shold be merged into Armor crafting.
- Standing army civics should be get by Constitution.
- Carography should be researched earlyer. Requires only Mathematics or Calendar.
- Caste system and Divine cult : -50% BR is too big. It should be -33%.


Put on a vote on this suggestions?

Click to expand...

I personally like all of those except maybe standing army by constitution maybe if you explained the reasoning behind that one a bit. I especially agree with irrigation and levee though.

ROM - AND2 SVN v. 2.92

I noticed I am having access to cotton even when I haven't even build a plantation on the cotton spot, and I haven't researched Calendar yet. However I got access to it the moment I researched Weaving, but still without a plantation on it, and perhaps that kinda makes sense I'm not sure?

EDIT: Found out one of my other cities(that I conquered) is built on top of a cotton. I didn't notice since I didn't build the city my self.

Is this intentional, that to get very early access to cotton you build a city on top of it and then discover weaving?

According to the Sevopedia for the technology Sculptures 'Strategy' text box, it gives access to Champion Statue and The Sphinx. However, under the "Buildings enabled"-box there are no icons or hyperlink for Sphinx However some additional buildings are shown: Sculptor's Workshop and Apadana Palace.

Also in the tech tree for Sculpture technology only Moai Statues are shown. The tooltip description is also incomplete only stating "Can construct Moai Statues and Champion Statue"

E_Pluribus_Unum said:

Some balancing / tweaking proposal :
- Space Flight gives the Hubble Space Telescope and Satellistes gives the Apollo Program. It shoud be inversely. (It's a very old "bug")
- Irrigation canal and Leeve are too strong. Shoud give only +0.5.
- Elephant riding and Horserback riding? They are too specific. They should be merged into Animal husbandary. (raise the cost of AH?)
- Horse breeding? It's too specific. It shoud be just "Breeding" and also it shoud give +1 food bonus for Butchery (or something like that).
- Mounted archery? It's too specific. It shold be merged into Military training.
- Armoerd cavarly? It's too specific. It shold be merged into Armor crafting.
- Standing army civics should be get by Constitution.
- Carography should be researched earlyer. Requires only Mathematics or Calendar.
- Caste system and Divine cult : -50% BR is too big. It should be -33%.
Put on a vote on this suggestions?

Click to expand...

Agreed on all with the exception of Horseback riding (should remain specific), levee's nerf (this game needs production bonuses, not nerfs) and standing army thru constitution (it comes too late at that point).

I would like to add that in AND 1.75C pacifism gave 100% culture boost which made it possible to culture flip opposing cities. With culture flipping virtually disabled in AND 2.0 (its for all practical purposes impossible to envelope a neighbors city with your borders and flip it to your side), I find it strange that on top of that, culture from pacifism has been nerfed from 100% down to 50%. I would propose boosting it back up to 100% or even 150%. Even those numbers would still make it impossible to culture flip a neighboring city but could give faster border expansion for unsettled continents.

Back in the "Day" of RoM pre AND, when Pacifism 1st got it's 100% Culture boost and was placed in the Military Civics the "hit" to Culture began. Each successive version and amplified thru AND kept reducing Culture as a viable strategy, until we have the mess (imho) that we have now. I have had countless discussions and arguments over the "gutting" of Culture thru that terrible Civic addition, with zappara, afforess, and most of the C2C team. If I had my way Pacifism would be totally removed, Culture restored to it's original BtS standing. And the same would happen to the Slavery Civic as well. And REV would be kept as a Modmod and Never put into the Core of RoM/AND. That's how I feel about it and always have. But I don't have my way so I peck at the edges.

Too be honest only the Space Flight and possibly Caste/ Divine Cult suggestions have merit. The rest I would oppose.

JosEPh

Ok, here I go with my 2 cents:

Space Flight and Satellites are ok like that, IMO. Sputnik came before manned space flight. So Satellites-->Space Flight is perfectly ok to me.
Irrigation canals and Levee are maybe just a bit too strong, but I wouldn't tune them down; as Arkatakor said, bonuses are needed in order to keep the game balanced.
About techs being merged, I don't like the idea and I don't see any good reason to do it: "too specific" isn't a good reason; this mod is meant to have various tech paths and I don't like the idea of removing some techs just because they're "too specific".
Standing Army also is good as it is, IMO: as Arkatakor said, it should not come too late; especially since there would be little other alternatives to Pacifism
Then again, why should cartography be researched earlier?
I probably agree on Caste and Divine Cult.

Regarding culture and city flipping. You're right, it's probably almost impossible now. But you won't solve your problem by overpowering culture, because that will affect EVERY civ. Moreover, it won't work because as the game is now, you can't conquest a tile near to a city no matter how much culture you are producing. That's another reason to play with revolution: when your culture is the main culture in a foreign city, you can bet it will be difficult for that foreign civ to hold that city: so you CAN use your culture to influence other cities. And bear in mind that enhancing culture again will throw off balance the game in other aspects as well: for example for people playing with Cultural Victory or Mastery Victory. So overpowering culture again won't solve anything.
In my current game, I'm just about to start the transhuman era and I have only 1 Legendary City, while my main opponent has 4 of them already. Since I'm playing with Mastery Victory, this means that he's 90 points ahead of me (and I'm playing with Catherine, which is creative so + ).

And there's another thing; how many games have you played with AND2 rev>586? I've tested dozens of them, and believe me the game IS balanced and it's not easy at all to win. I don't think that playing a single game that doesn't turn out good means that the game isn't properly balanced. Just try more games and more options. You'll see things under a different light.

Edit: @Jayman1000, I know Sevopedia is a mess sometimes; I plan to correct everything that's wrong right now, thank you for your tip!