Dow because of defensive pact, penalty?

Hey! Long time lurker, first time poster here.

So, my question is pretty much in the title. I'm playing my first game where i limit myself to four cities, and it is so much more fun than just trying to become a big superpower. I've been involved in a few wars, dowed others a couple of times (the penalty seems to go away). But how does it work with defensive pacts?

In my game, rome was being a bully. But i had an idea that i would not get the DOW-penalty if i bribed rome to dow my ally, China. So, if i auto-dow because a defensive pact, do i still get dow penalty?

//F

It counts as you declaring war, but not all declared wars carry a DoW penalty. The AI doesn't mind as much if you DoW a warmonger and then never take his cities than if you DoW a peaceful AI and eliminate it from the game. Basically, it's moreso who you declare war on and what you do once at war that the AI cares about, since it's difficult to make a computer understand the reasons for things unless you hard-code them into the action like in Europa Universalis.

So the answer is if you want to kill him, the only difference it would make for you to bribe him is it would force China to help you.

Thanks for your reply, and for the clarification! Too bad, i thought i was being smart ;-)
Though i have to admit that it's more interesting the way it really works.

//F

I think the difference is in who makes the DoW.

It seems to me you dont get a diplomacy hit for joining an AI in their DoW, only if you declare war yourself.

Instead, you take the diplomacy when you make the pact. It's just like if you make a DoF with their enemy. Making the pact hurts your diplomacy, not when and if the pact gets invoked.