timerover51
Deity
I always have India mad at me, and continually declaring war on me, and this with their aggression level turned all the way down. I keep thinking that I should try it the other way. Could not hurt.
Most Pointless/useless things
- Thread starter Buttercup
- Start date
tjs282
Stone \ Cold / Fish
This only applies if your ally had a deal running with your attacker, which they then abandoned for an alliance with you. It doesn't make any difference to how you can then make deals with your ally -- or your former attacker (if they're still on the map!). Although I'm always bemused at how, once you've made peace with your attacker, Ambassador Effour thinks they're your friend again...
If you want to keep your trade rep intact, one thing you need to remember when you make an MA, is that you should never sign peace before your ally does. That may mean waiting until the 20T is over -- and then you should cancel the MA before making the PT. Because if you make peace first, and/or without cancelling the MA, it will count as you breaking the deal, and your ally will be
at you -- and tell everyone he knows about it.Although that consideration will never of course prevent him from breaking the MA deal after only 5-10T...
![[pissed]](/images/smilies/pissed.gif "Pissed [pissed]")
No. Everyone who already knows the Romans when you 'break' your deal with them, will immediately flag you as 'untrustworthy' -- and that flag is permanent, AFAIK. That doesn't mean that they won't deal with you at all -- but they will significantly raise their prices, and/or refuse subsequent per-turn offers. (You'll see this if they're happy to take, say, 500g for a tech, but will be 'insulted' if you then also add 1GPT -- although they may accept a Lux or StratRes).
Assuming that all that is needed is for the AICIvs to have met each other once (e.g. with exploring units), deal-breaking DoWs are really only 'rep-safe' in the early game (if you have the firepower!) before everyone's talked to each other for the first time. So on Small-Medium Pangaeas where everyone meets everyone else relatively early, you'll rarely be able to break deals safely -- unless you control the choke-point(s) between the two halves of your continent, preventing your neighbours from meeting. Breaking deals is also 'safer' on Continents or Arch-maps where the overseas AICivs will take longer to contact your victim(s).
However, if Embassies are needed (not sure), then you can probably break deals before Writing is widely known, even on Small-Medium Pangaeas. Or, if you control a continental chokepoint(s), you could still cheat/betray all the Civs on one side, even after Writing, and your neighbour(s) on the other side will never 'know' about it...
In the late game, after contacts can be traded (PrintingPress?) and the AICivs have enough gold to set up Embassies everywhere, news of your perfidy will most likely be transmitted instantly and globally. So by that point, you can probably forget about being able to break deals and still keep your rep intact with any of the AICivs. OTOH, by that point, you should also be too big to care, right?
I found the unfair and (more important) permanent trade reputation hits somewhat pointless.
In my current game I sold the Romans some furs. Two rounds later they were furious on me and told all other civs that I had cheated them.
What happens?
They were alone on their own island and sold or lost their harbour. There was no war and no vulcano as cause. And then blame me for not delivering the furs...
I do agree that there may be a better solution than permanent reputation-sullying. I think Europa Universalis IV does this fairly well with their trust mechanic - the amount of trust other nations (both generally, and in particular) place in you can go up or down, but generally breaking deals will make it fall faster than honoring deals will make it go up. But if you do break a deal, you aren't out of luck for the entire game. Always stand by your allies, and they will come to trust thoroughly and be much more willing to come to your aid in the future. Continually break deals, and you'll have a harder time finding allies in the future and will have to make a dedicated investment to re-earn trust over many decades.But at the very least, not getting blamed due to their harbor issues would be nice!
Immortal7777
Chieftain
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2012
- Messages
- 87
The most useless thing has got to be the "Set rally point" option when you right click a city. To this day I have no idea what it means or what it does as it just disappears when you click something
tjs282
Stone \ Cold / Fish
I'm glad you said that -- there's nothing in the Civilopedia about rally points as far as I can tell, and I haven't been able to find anything definite on CFC either, to confirm or deny how I think they work (there is a brief mention of using a rally point in Scoutsout's 'Warmongering 101' article, but he doesn't go into much detail).
I do know that, if I set a Continental rally point (CRP), then every unit I complete during the following turn(s) will start making its way towards that CRP as soon as it's built -- or instantly, if I already have a decent railroad network. This can be useful if I want to ship large numbers of units overseas from a specific coastal city: I just set the CRP on the Harbour-town nearest to my enemy's continent, and then during the turn I don't need to spend any time moving individual units to that town, I just load the newly built Cavs/ Tanks/ Inf/ Arty straight into the waiting Transports.
I have therefore assumed that a 'simple' rally point works similarly, but applies only to the units built out of that one city -- but I don't know that for sure, and I never use CRPs until the late game anyway.
Immortal7777
Chieftain
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2012
- Messages
- 87
Really? It disappears when I use it for some reason. I must be doing something wrong.
1. Feudalism
2. Heroic Epic
3. F-15 UU - I mean, I guess if you STILL haven't gotten a GA and are finishing up a cultural or something. Although... if you're playing for cultural you should've had your GA already. NOT to mention that winning with this UU requires a lot of specific circumstances.
2. Heroic Epic
3. F-15 UU - I mean, I guess if you STILL haven't gotten a GA and are finishing up a cultural or something. Although... if you're playing for cultural you should've had your GA already. NOT to mention that winning with this UU requires a lot of specific circumstances.
eXalted
Warlord
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2012
- Messages
- 100
I wonder if upping their Movement and Defense will make them useful for denying enemy resources?
Not sure if useful or imbalanced..
Desertsnow
πr²
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- Dec 13, 2004
- Messages
- 1,794
Agreed. Yeah, this unit is useless by any measure.
Desertsnow
πr²
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- Dec 13, 2004
- Messages
- 1,794
(please delete this.)
@ Immortal7777
as soon as a city stops producing a unit an chances to anything else the R-Point is resetet. amaybe a bug. I always use the continental RP to collect my new units in one place. Individual points are only sometimes usable. eg for ships or if i let 3 cities produse my airforce while i prepare my ground units fr battle in another place
as soon as a city stops producing a unit an chances to anything else the R-Point is resetet. amaybe a bug. I always use the continental RP to collect my new units in one place. Individual points are only sometimes usable. eg for ships or if i let 3 cities produse my airforce while i prepare my ground units fr battle in another place
timerover51
Deity
I have not played around with modifying Feudalism, however I have worked on the Heroic Epic.
With the Heroic Epic, I change that in the Editor to become available with Literature, with no victorious army requirement, and then set it to produce a Leader every 10 turns or so. You can set it to autoproduce one anywhere from 1 to 100 turns. Note, if you do this, the AI will build it as well, so it somewhat gives you an advantage.
As for the F-15UU, I prefer using the Marine as the American Unique Unit, although that does imbalance the game a bit, as one-tile islands then become immune to be taken over unless you are the Americans.
eXalted
Warlord
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2012
- Messages
- 100
I thought this thread was about what's useless in game lol.
As Theov said earlier, the thread will be a lot more useful if there is a discussion of how all the useless things can be improved in the editor.
I had no idea threads had to be useful, the Opening Post quite clearly states it's a just for fun thread. But I do think it's great how different people interpret the thread, I've enjoyed everyone's response so far 
Interestingly, in my last game, I had cause to build 2 Explorers and there was still some black spots on the globe when I researched Satellites.
The explorers were used because it was a huge archipelago with the settings on Cold, Dry and Mountainous, 11 opponents - and relatively near my pure desert island (it's ok I was playing an Agri-civ) was two gigantic tundra/hills monstrosities of islands where sailing round the island still left a large black spot in their middles. I had absolutely no desire to waste time settling these hideous time-wastes and it appeared neither did the AI. Somehow they were, unusually, both out the reach of pre-Navigation AI naval bravery. Then the dreaded Resources issue arrived, and I didn't have any Coal or Iron when I got to Railroads - so I sent off two Explorers to quickly gauge the whereabouts of the new Resources, so I could just Settle one small town with a Harbour on them. Luckily, because it was Regent, they just managed to survive long enough for me to put them to use before the AI auto-attacked any random island towns - I also disbanded them as soon as my requirement for the Resource ended. So, just before I clicked end-turn before my Launch Spaceship I had disbanded both my last two island towns of Aluminium and Uranium.
Because there's nothing more pointless than an ex-resource on a far away island in a Space Race.
The black spots of satellites was just laziness.
Interestingly, in my last game, I had cause to build 2 Explorers and there was still some black spots on the globe when I researched Satellites.
The explorers were used because it was a huge archipelago with the settings on Cold, Dry and Mountainous, 11 opponents - and relatively near my pure desert island (it's ok I was playing an Agri-civ) was two gigantic tundra/hills monstrosities of islands where sailing round the island still left a large black spot in their middles. I had absolutely no desire to waste time settling these hideous time-wastes and it appeared neither did the AI. Somehow they were, unusually, both out the reach of pre-Navigation AI naval bravery. Then the dreaded Resources issue arrived, and I didn't have any Coal or Iron when I got to Railroads - so I sent off two Explorers to quickly gauge the whereabouts of the new Resources, so I could just Settle one small town with a Harbour on them. Luckily, because it was Regent, they just managed to survive long enough for me to put them to use before the AI auto-attacked any random island towns - I also disbanded them as soon as my requirement for the Resource ended. So, just before I clicked end-turn before my Launch Spaceship I had disbanded both my last two island towns of Aluminium and Uranium.
Because there's nothing more pointless than an ex-resource on a far away island in a Space Race.
The black spots of satellites was just laziness.
Kirejara
King
The american F-15 as UU is in my eyes as useless as the korean Hwach´a. It is very unlikely to get a golden age with both of them.
My solutions are the Texas Ranger for Lincoln (Cuirassier line, 6/4/3 and blitz) and the Turtleship for Wang Kong (Galeass line, 3/3/3) as second UU (some other civs have got two UU too, but to my own surprise mostly those civs, that I do play very rarely).
In order to justify the higher price tags of the capital ships in relation to smaller ships, I have given the Ship of the Line (Pre-Dreadnought), Dreadnought, Battlecruiser and Battleship a leathal sea and land bombardement, the Light Cruisers can carry 2 foot units and both Heavy Cruisers and Battleships can carry a Seaplane or Attack Helicopter (marked as aircraft and foot unit).
Destroyers are slightly weaker (8/6/13) and have got only a non lethal sea bombardement. But they can see invisible units.
My solutions are the Texas Ranger for Lincoln (Cuirassier line, 6/4/3 and blitz) and the Turtleship for Wang Kong (Galeass line, 3/3/3) as second UU (some other civs have got two UU too, but to my own surprise mostly those civs, that I do play very rarely).
In order to justify the higher price tags of the capital ships in relation to smaller ships, I have given the Ship of the Line (Pre-Dreadnought), Dreadnought, Battlecruiser and Battleship a leathal sea and land bombardement, the Light Cruisers can carry 2 foot units and both Heavy Cruisers and Battleships can carry a Seaplane or Attack Helicopter (marked as aircraft and foot unit).
Destroyers are slightly weaker (8/6/13) and have got only a non lethal sea bombardement. But they can see invisible units.
Very interesting list! Let me add my two cents:
- Has anybody mentioned Coastal Fortresses already...
It does not work by design... Apparently it fires at a "passing" ship, when the ship moves from one tile adjacent to the town to another tile adjacent to the town. But the AI has been programmed to move straight to your town, bombard and then retreat straight back again. Consequently the Coastal Fortress never fires...
- Explorers are very powerful in multiplayer games! Have 6-10 of them ready at the start of a war and then pillage all your opponent's luxury resources and iron/saltpeter/oil/rubber etc. within 6 tiles of his border! On the first turn of war, his entire nation will go into riot, and later he'll have to raise the lux-slider so much, that his research capacity and/or ability to cash-rush units is severely hampered. And he will be unable to build any of the "good units" for a couple of turns, until he has re-connected that crucial oil resource or whatever. All this can already give you the decisive starting advantage to knock him out.
- Heroic Epic is quite useful: a) When going for a 20K victory - 4 culture for only 200s quite early is very strong! b) When doing "leader fishing", it will increase your odds for an MGL from 1 out of 16 to 1 out of 12. That's nothing to be sneezed at!
- Guerrillas are indeed very powerful, if you have no rubber. (Like Longbows when you are without iron, or TOW Infantry when without oil.)
- BTW: how exactly does the "Wonder Victory" work? I've never tried it.
Desertsnow
πr²
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2004
- Messages
- 1,794
Agreed, except that I tend to prefer civ-wide (100K) cultural victory.
