Star Control 2 - Creation Thread

Hans99

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This buggers me since a long while. Star control C3 was a bad offshot of the original ideas from Star Control 2 of Fred Ford and Paul Reiche III ( Altough the guys at the Ur-Quan Masters forum made a good inofficial sequel callend The Ur Quan Masters - 6014 ).

This Scenario is intended for ToT. Hyperspace could be depicted by another map stage. But i do not have a idea about the story i should make.

-Should i remake the old SC2 Game ?

-Prequel to SC2 ?

-Sequel to SC2 ?

-Totally independet story in the Star control Universe ???

I got the graphics but no idea, help... :sad:
 

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I played the Ur-Quan masters once, good luck with making that into a scenario. Not going to be easy I fear.....
 
Civ2 is a game with a good balance of empire-building, research and conquest.

I think it will be best to make a building/research/conquest game in the SC2 universe.
For example: Begin with only one ship. Build strong Federation's fleet and smash UrQuan's tyranny out in regular war!

May be with some elements of original SC2's quest (to add a feel), but only some, not all.

Remake of original idea with Civ2 engine will be definitely worse than the original UrQuan Masters game. Nails must be drived in with a hammer but screws with a screwdriver. Don't try to drive in nails with a screwdriver :)
 
This sounds like an interesting scenario, especially when thinking about the wonderful planets you have posted. :)
 
I loved that game, and I think it would make a great subject for a scenario! If it were me I would make a new story in the Star Control universe. You should try to replicate SC2's hilarious dialogue in the diplomacy screen.
 
@ keu

I think you mentioned the most important thing here. It might be possible to remake it to some degree in Civ II ToT ( just look at Catfish's LotR Scenario ), but it would need a lot of work and i would have to make many compromises.

So making a conquest game that goes in timespan from SC1 till destruction of the Sa Matra, with loosely based events from SC2 and elements from UQM project 6014, might be the best idea i think. Your opinion is welcome.

@ EZRhino

Yeah, the Dialogs could easily be modified. Think about if someone gets the Utwig Bomb ( Nuclear Weapon ) he can say: "Tremble before the power of our Precursor bomb." :eek: This will be a nice tweak, cause the old vanila negotiation text sucks in my Opinion. Good pointing this out.

@ Curt

Thanks, i really appreciate your offer and will come back to it :)



Mos important i think is to still keep the "feel" of the SC games. Many things here can be achieved by a good graphic, but gameplay is even more important, 'cause this is was what was so special about the original.



As seen i included some stuff in the units collection, like data plates and the cloaking device, that were not included in the original SC2. They might be in for some interesting events.
 

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So making a conquest game that goes in timespan from SC1 till destruction of the Sa Matra, with loosely based events from SC2 and elements from UQM project 6014, might be the best idea i think. Your opinion is welcome.

I think so.
 
So, at first the basics. In Star control we have the concept of red shifted Hyperspace. How should we include this in this scenario? I made myself some thoughts and came up with two solutions.

The first one is that all four available gigamaps systems get interconnected by jumppoints (Transporters). allowing one system a maximum of 8 accessible systems and for some interesting drawing of space maps ( Wing commander Jump point connections comes into my mind ). The extensive size of the map would allow for many systems, but i think it might be too big to make much fun,except you like the exploration a lot that alreda made SC 2 so famous.

Planes are shifted


possible Hyperspace Jumppoint Transporter




The second would be an interconnection of two planes with one hyperspace plane. Disadvantage is here that we have "much" less systems available. But it might be good for playability, especially if we go towards a more militaristic approach.

Hyperspace plane connects two true space planes


Terrain from possible Hyperspace


I hope these fast sample pictures make clear what i mean. Any suggestions are really welcome.
 

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I would not recommend 4 gigamaps, the AI is totally useless under those sorts of conditions. I would use 1 map for normal space and one for hyperspace with the teleporters sitting ontop of the stars in the hyperspace map, you could label them 'gravity well' or something like that. There is also the quasi-space idea, with a third map completely covered in invisible railroads, though that might unfairly disadvantage the AI players as well. Perhaps it could only be accessible to Precursor or Arilou warships.
 
May be 4 gigamaps is too much space to cover. In my space mod with two connected Kobyashi maps (where every planet can be settled) I have the feeling, that I have more fun when playing with one map, so the wormwhole connection between the both maps is pretty cool.

Another thought: May be you should use the ship graphics from SC 3, as these ships in my eyes look much better.


Spoiler :
 

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EDITED 20:16
@EZRhino & Civinator
Yeah, i think that might be best. Star control without hyperspace would mean to miss something important ! After my experience with that Balkan Task ( Huge Scenario means a lot of work ), i also think we finally should keep it small but intense.

About SC3 Graphics, hmm is there some place to download them ? I must admit i never played SC3, but only the first few minutes and then deceided it was crap.


The next question is if we use ocean as vanilla space or if we choose land terrain, like in kobayashis star trek terrain? Both has it's pro and cons.

->Ocean allows for transport and carrier ability of the spacecraft, but has the disadvantage of
not allowing the use of railroads and roads. Showing the fast speed travel via quasi space is difficult with it.

->Land Terrain as space would allow for space lanes ( Roads). Quasi space could then be depicted as EZRhino suggested, covered with railroads and allowing for fast interdimensional travel.


Personally i prefer ocean terrain, because of the transport and carrier ability. This would allow for ur quan fighter squadrons, orz space marines, landing crafts, ground invasion troops and settlers, Mycon plasma balls, nukes and so on...
 
About SC3 Graphics, hmm is there some place to download them ? I must admit i never played SC3, but only the first few minutes and then deceided it was crap.

I don´t know such a place. I made the SC 3 screenshot from the melee-menue long ago, as SC 3 only runs with windows 95/98 and not with my current Win 7 64 bit system. If this is needed, may be I can reactivate my old mothballed win 98 pc.

The next question is if we use ocean as vanilla space or if we choose land terrain, like in kobayashis star trek terrain? Both has it's pro and cons.

In my eyes this depends if you want the game to be an only human player game or if you want to focus on a single player vs. AI game. I think the AI is better, when only using land terrain. That´s why in my spacemod both maps (or in future the only map) are land terrain and the suns sea terrain.
 
About SC3 Graphics, hmm is there some place to download them ? I must admit i never played SC3, but only the first few minutes and then deceided it was crap.
Maybe its just me but I prefer the old school look of SC2.

The next question is if we use ocean as vanilla space or if we choose land terrain, like in kobayashis star trek terrain? Both has it's pro and cons.

->Ocean allows for transport and carrier ability of the spacecraft, but has the disadvantage of
not allowing the use of railroads and roads. Showing the fast speed travel via quasi space is difficult with it.

->Land Terrain as space would allow for space lanes ( Roads). Quasi space could then be depicted as EZRhino suggested, covered with railroads and allowing for fast interdimensional travel.


Personally i prefer ocean terrain, because of the transport and carrier ability. This would allow for ur quan fighter squadrons, orz space marines, landing crafts, ground invasion troops and settlers, Mycon plasma balls, nukes and so on...
You could have everything inside of the oort cloud be land terrain, and surround each star system with either ocean or ToT impassible terrain (which could be called deep-space or something like that), to represent the fact that it can take hundreds of years to transit between stars at relativistic speeds. Enigmatic Kohr-Ah fleets could lurk in the dark void between stars. Players would have to circle their defenses around the hyperspace exits next to their stars as well as in the outer system to guard against invasions from beyond the oort cloud. I'm not sure how you could allow settler units to be able to transit across hyperspace, without being able to also build cities or improvements in hyperspace, which just seems silly.

I like your idea of adding empire building elements, and not just space battles, to the scenario as well. I'm curious about what the tribes will be and if there will be any additional units to one taken directly from SC2.
 
@ EZRhino

i too like the sc2 style, but i think here we will go with what looks more fit to the surrounding. when we use high end planetdesigns i think the sc3 style would fit in better. if we use one colour planets and an overall more comical style i tend to sc2. I think allowing 2 sets of graphics in the final version, so that you can choose the units.bmp you prefer would be the best here.

About the deeps space border, yeah, i already started creating a map where i did choose impassale terrain as border. The Settler problem is solved relatively easy, as te AI only builds cities on Grassland and plains! So choosing terrain different from them allows for a clean Hyperspace :). I like te idea about kohr ahr lurking in open space. that's something that has potential ...


I am still not sure about the landterrain space or ocean space. Is there any game experience with an older sci fi scenario that used mainly ocean terrain ( Kobayashis used land terrain and it worked rather good ) ??? Will the AI build cities on one square island ???
 
Concerning the tribes question, well, that's tricky. I thought of the following:

1. Civ

Alliance

-Earthling
-Yehat
-Syreen
-Mrmhrmhrhm
-Chenjensu
-Shofixti
-Arilouleelay
(-Chmmr)

2. Civ

Hierarchy

-Ur Quan
-Mycon
-Vux
-Androsynth
-Spathi?
-Umgah
-Ilwrath

3. Civ
-Thraddash

4. Civ
-Druuge

5. Civ
-Utwig Supox Partnership


6.Civ
-Orz ( With some nasty surprises )

7.Civ
-Pkunk?

8.Civ Barbarians
-Kohr Ah Menace
-Slylandro probes
-Lurg
-Dangers of deep space etc...

The burvixse, the Gg, Keel verezy and the Maelnum/Melnorme can also be included in some way. Pkunk and Spathi i am unsure...
 
Is there any progress in that scenario?
 
I would really like to play this. I have been enjoying a bit of Sci Fi recently with a multiplayer game of Kobayashi's Star Trek BAQ but the Borg have virtually wiped me out so. Even so it has really got me into Civ2 Sci Fi scenarios!
 
Yeah, there is some progress, but i am updating my system to win 7 64 at the moment. To use the old stuff from Test of time i will install win 7 32 on another partition and get the rock back rolling.

I am planning now to include some planetary ground maps with aliens and devices, so the map levels will look like:


Plain one - Planetary surfaces

Plain two - Main plane of true space

Plain three - Hyperspace

Plain four - Quasispace / Some darker places from the Orz:eek:



Dont worry, no work will be left undone :)

I can give you a glimpse at the sol sys ( Planet names are added extra by me for better understanding )

 

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