Carthage, are they an effective civ?

ifinnem said:

I tried this same strategy and found I had to spread the religion before these kicked in so it wasn't as ideal as I'd hoped.
Are you saying you got these when founding a city on a far away island immediately?
How?

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If you haven't founded your religion yet (first Great Prophet) then your Pantheon will automatically appear in your new cities.

It stops doing that once you found your religion.

I like Carthage, but it seems you can't get the trade network from the free harbor unless you have The Wheel. Which is %(*^ing stupid--you can't trade along the coast until you can get the wheel? Huh?

gserack said:

I like Carthage, but it seems you can't get the trade network from the free harbor unless you have The Wheel. Which is %(*^ing stupid--you can't trade along the coast until you can get the wheel? Huh?

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The Wheel is the tech (always has been) that allows trade routes so it makes perfect sense.

Just because you can build a harbour, doesn't mean you also figured out that trading with other cities is a good thing to do.

Someone tell me more about the settling on mountain tiles...

I still love my Catherine, but Dido is definitely hot!

Harthhal said:

Someone tell me more about the settling on mountain tiles...

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It is great, but your city loses -50 health per turn ..................Just joking.

The only gotcha I see for Carthage is that you need to keep an eye on your workers or they commit suicide crossing mountains.

If you want to conquer, get big now and conquer later, when you can buy and pay for any units you want.

I found it very pleasant to take over a mercantile city state early on as carthage with 4 ships. You keep their extra luxury resource so its a 2 for 1. Its like having another capitol with 2 unique luxes.

Civologist said:

I found it very pleasant to take over a mercantile city state early on as carthage with 4 ships. You keep their extra luxury resource so its a 2 for 1. Its like having another capitol with 2 unique luxes.

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I did that. Only peacefully with Austria. 4 times in a game. If you want jewelry or flatware, you talk to Maria.

Eagle Pursuit said:

I
did that. Only peacefully with Austria. 4 times in a game. If you want jewelry or flatware, you talk to Maria.

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cartho do it much earlier than maria gets a moneyz to take over first cs.... and cartho initially able to have more moneyz/science and war tools during early expansion/conquest so will have advantage in everything before maria gets chance to use her UA first time.

The second time I played G+K, I played Carthage, and I loved it! I picked archipelago, but to make Carthage really work, you need a lot of coastal cities, shich isn't that hard depending on the starts that you have. I get a lot of coastal cities in my games no matter what civ or maps I play (I tend to stick with continents or continents type maps a lot).

I also like that harbors were given the production bonus too...

You know what's better than Carthage on Archipelago?

Carthage : Large Islands : Huge Map

In my game, literally half the map looks like a plum pudding.

Carthage with Messenger of the Gods is incredibly powerful. Runaway tech is fun.

I recently won a domination victory as Carthage and I must say the crossing mountains ability was FAR more useful than I thought it would be. The AI really likes to settle cities in hard to attack locations, including using mountains as walls, and being able to go right over those walls to get at the back of their cities was incredibly useful. I honestly thought this ability was just flavor when I first saw it, and obviously on some map types it will be, but on other map types it is very very good.

Maybe it's just the luck of the dice, but I played one Carthage game so far and it ended up like this:

- I started on the coast, near the mouth of a large bay, accross which there was a large peninsula with mountains in the middle
- opposite from that coast, there were TWO inland seas, connected by a choke point, and connected to the ocean by yet another choke point. On the largest inland sea, there were 4 capitals for: England, Spain, Netherlands, and Polynesia.

Egypt founded a city on the choke point between the ocean and the small inland sea, I founded a city near Amsterdam to form yet another canal, used my Quinquiremes to take Memphis, and instantly had access to traveling to the large inland sea and later on (in Modern/atomic era) dominated that inland sea with my ships. Made wars against those civs way easier, being able to move my fleets in and out of that sea.

I also settled accross the mountains to gain the Ulrulru on the peninsula(however that is spelled), and extra gold/copper resources, and founded an extra city there too for good measure and again my fleet helped out against Mumbai which was founded in that bay and later conquered by Polynesia, again my destroyers made that easy to conquer.

And all my cities were insta-connected to my trade network thanks to harbors.

So the game went in my favor, not so much because of the UA or UUs, I'm guessing it had more to do with the map itself, and I wonder if that kind of map/start is part of the "start bias" for Carthage?

Their bias seem to be shore Plains with desert tiles not far

Eagle Pursuit said:

I did that. Only peacefully with Austria. 4 times in a game. If you want jewelry or flatware, you talk to Maria.

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Peacefully? It sounds like you're starting the Austrian Mob.

shaglio said:

Peacefully? It sounds like you're starting the Austrian Mob.

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Dear god, we already have the Mongolian mob to deal with, now we have a Carthaginian and Austrian mob too

Is there something about Carthage's start bias that prevents sea/water resources? I want to do a Large Islands map and start on the coast with some sea resources (crab/fish/whale). But in 20+ map rerolls, I've started on the coast every single time but have never rolled a map with more than a single fish in range. Am I doing something wrong or is it impossible to roll a map like I'm describing?