Ghandi- what is he good for, now?

Actually a few easy fixes to India would make it more easily playable:

- UA: Citizens produce only half the normal unhappiness when a city grows beyond size 6.
- UU: Make it the same hammer and gold cost as Hun HA.
- UB: As is, I think it's quite ok as walls are pretty necessary now. You want the bonus, you have to get it, simple as that.

Honestly I always wince whenever I see Gandhi in setup. Something like "DOUBLE UNHAPPINESS" is not I normally call a Unique Ability. It's a Lousy Ability in my dictionary.

WRT UA vs Freedom SP that reduces specialist unhappiness, I think that means specialists only produce 0.25 unhappiness per specialist.
 
Minor Annoyance said:
BTW, if anyone is wondering India's UA and Democracy SP don't stack. Adding Democracy slightly decreases :c5angry: but I think it might be that the UA rounds :c5angry: up and Democracy rounds down. I was wondering if a half and half reduction would make it 0 but it didn't, which is different from Greece where same religion + Patronage + UA makes influence decay 0.
Click to expand...

Kwami said:
I'm not entirely sure what you're saying, here. Could you clarify?
Click to expand...

India's UA cuts :c5angry: from population in half. Democracy SP cuts :c5angry: from specialist population in half. So I thought that India with democracy would cut :c5angry: from specialists to 25% or add together and make it 0. It did neither and the :c5angry: change was negligible. So India gets nothing from democracy. I thought it would be an overpowering SP but it turned out the opposite.
 
Minor Annoyance said:
India's UA cuts :c5angry: from population in half. Democracy SP cuts :c5angry: from specialist population in half. So I thought that India with democracy would cut :c5angry: from specialists to 25% or add together and make it 0. It did neither and the :c5angry: change was negligible. So India gets nothing from democracy. I thought it would be an overpowering SP but it turned out the opposite.
Click to expand...

That sounds like a bug, then. :(
 
India's UA and the policy Democracy do stack or at least it did in vanilla. The only difference is that you need four specialist for one happiness, and eight specialists in your capital if you have monarchy policy.
 
ezbutton said:
India's UA and the policy Democracy do stack or at least it did in vanilla. The only difference is that you need four specialist for one happiness, and eight specialists in your capital if you have monarchy policy.
Click to expand...

You're right it is working. It just seemed wrong because in a previous game it was a huge difference cutting it in half but now it's just 1/4 because the half is already happening.
 
I would change the "citizens only produce half as much unhappiness" to "specialists produce one extra food and one extra happiness", and keep the "double unhappiness from cities" for balance. I believe it would be both stronger and closer to the original idea for India, which seemed to be to incentivize a tall strategy. And there's obvious synergy with Freedom (specialists would cost no food and actually increase your total happiness by 0.5!)
 
ezbutton said:
India's UA and the policy Democracy do stack or at least it did in vanilla. The only difference is that you need four specialist for one happiness, and eight specialists in your capital if you have monarchy policy.
Click to expand...
Eight specialits for one :mad: Nice! :lol:
 
What the OP describes is a result of a flawed system: global happiness. When happiness is a 'resource' to hoard as opposed to some reflection of a nation's mood (which Civ 5's happiness NEVER feels like) you are going to get these sorts of situations where nations might never even come close to unhappiness.
 
A side note: why should one of the largest and most populace nations be encouraged to play tall? Surely someplace like the Netherlands of Japan would be a far better candidate for such railroading (not that railroading is good, of course).
 
jjkrause84 said:
A side note: why should one of the largest and most populace nations be encouraged to play tall? Surely someplace like the Netherlands of Japan would be a far better candidate for such railroading (not that railroading is good, of course).
Click to expand...

It is ranked 7th in the world by land size, but it's still pretty small when considering just how many people are in its' borders.
 
If they add anything to India it should be faith. India is know as as religious place but by the nature of faith points coming mostly from cities they can't generate much.
 
Minor Annoyance said:
If they add anything to India it should be faith. India is know as as religious place but by the nature of faith points coming mostly from cities they can't generate much.
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It makes me laugh how the Ghandi's intro mentions "home of three of the worlds greatest religions", and yet India gets no faith bonuses at all - and you can only found one religion anyway... :lol:
 
I see India's UA akin to the Netherlands, tho probably slightly less useful. The advantage to excess happiness is the ability to sell off any and all luxury resources, but in contrast to Netherlands you will probably have less land area and theoretically less lux to sell off, but still.. not entirely useless.

Those elephants could definitely use a reworking, give them the 'near fearful opponent' promo so at least they have something that will carry over when upgraded, as it stands they upgrade to knights and lose any of the ranged promotions you gave them, tho honestly I never really bother to build them anyhow, Archer/Comp/Xbow/Gatling/Machine Gun are much quicker/more effective/ than an expensive to build unit that has no defensive terrain bonuses and upgrades into a knight.
 
Playing on Deity here, getting your religion going and/or merc CS is a whole lot easier said then done... Bump into a Siam with his CS and Expansion flavor rolled high and you might as well not get a single one of them.

I dislike Playing Ghandi because he has timings completely different on his own, but I don't see him as bottom tier.
 
woodshadows said:
I see India's UA akin to the Netherlands, tho probably slightly less useful. The advantage to excess happiness is the ability to sell off any and all luxury resources, but in contrast to Netherlands you will probably have less land area and theoretically less lux to sell off, but still.. not entirely useless.
Click to expand...
They're like the direct opposite. Netherlands' happiness modifier encourages faster city settlement while India prevents early city settlement. Netherlands works better as a wide empire to sell as many luxuries as possible while India is about keeping those luxuries so you don't sink into unhappiness with the few tall cities you can muster before all the AI takes good available land.
 
Is'nt Ghandi meant to be super strong playing a wide stragety. With cities twice the size of other cives?
 
Well the point is simple if you got much happiness then you can sell resources, limit happiness buildings and wonders and generally improve your economy... Moreover you now got a chance to play Gandhi offensively while before GnK you had culture only
 
tharg said:
Is'nt Ghandi meant to be super strong playing a wide stragety. With cities twice the size of other cives?
Click to expand...

Not at all, you will be getting double the unhappiness from each of those cities...

Gandhi is designed for a few cities with massive pop.
 
Yzman said:
Not at all, you will be getting double the unhappiness from each of those cities...

Gandhi is designed for a few cities with massive pop.
Click to expand...

Normal civ gets 3 unhappiness per city plus one per population, India gets 6 unhappiness per city plus a half per population. So if I have it right you make a table of city cizes verse unhappiness for India and other civs.

Pop Unhappy India Unhappy
1 4 6.5
2 5 7
3 6 7.5
4 7 8
5 8 8.5
6 9 9
7 10 9.5
8 11 10
9 12 10.5
10 13 11
11 14 11.5
12 15 12


So if you have enough per city happiness to support 12 unhappiness per city then India can support size 12 cities while other civs can only support size 9 cities.

In general stuff that improves city happiness is twice as effective for india in improving pop cap, assuming ICS.
 
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