Great Person multi-pops aren't dead (they're just slightly wounded)

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Dilettante
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We had heard that popping multiple Great Persons in the same city on the same turn was going to be addressed (a bit too exploit-y?). Sure enough, for the 3 "main line" Great People who continue to run off the same counter -- Great Scientists, Great Merchants and Great Engineers -- the door has closed, but in an interesting way.

You can still simul-pop Great People running off different counters (GWAMs all run off their own separate counters, as do Great Generals, Great Admirals and Great Prophets (generally--the Mayan Long-Count, Liberty finisher and Leaning Tower bugs are still there)), but that has never been regarded as any sort of exploit, since getting, e.g., a Great General the turn before you spawn a Great Engineer does not force any delay of the Great Engineer, or vis-versa, since they run off different counters, so there's no advantage or disadvantage in timing them to pop on the same turn.

Just to remind everyone how multi-popping worked in G&K for GPs running off the same counter (GAs/GEs/GMs/GSs): As you worked specialist slots in your cities, there were times when the accumulation of Great Person points (GPPs) in a given city was such that you had the opportunity to time two or more GPs to cross the next multiple of 100 GPPs in the same city on the same turn. (Didn't work with different cities, since the game resolves each city sequentially, in the order founded or acquired.) This essentially saved you the relevant multiple of 100 GPPs for your next GP (e.g., if you did the trifecta, spawning a GE, GA and GS on the same turn when the counter was crossing 400 GPPs, then your next GP would cost 700 GPPs, but you would have saved 300 GPPs by the time you got there, since your three simultaneous GPs cost only 1200 GPPs (3 x 400), rather than 1500 GPPs (400 + 500 + 600).

In BNW (and maybe in the pre-BNW patch for G&K -- I haven't checked), the door is closed for the 3 GPs that still run on the same counter - GE, GM and GS. No surprise there, but what is a bit of a surprise is how they resolved the conflict when 2 or 3 GPs try to cross the multiple-of-100 threshold on the same turn.

Based on my testing, it appears that the Great Scientist will ALWAYS spawn before either a Great Merchant or Great Engineer, and that a GM will ALWAYS spawn before a GE. It does not matter how close each of them was to that multiple of 100 at the beginning of the turn, how many GPPs they are generating on the turn they cross that multiple of 100, or how far above that multiple of 100 they would have ended up on that turn. So, for example, if all three GPs are sitting at 397, and the GS is generating 5 GPPs, the GM is generating 6 and the GE is generating 7, the GS pops first. If the GS is cut back to 1 GPP (keeping him below 400 on that turn), the GM pops before the GE.

I've tested this with the GE starting ahead of the other two (e.g., at 398 in this example), with the GE generating the highest GPP/turn, and with the GE ending up with the highest pro forma GPP total on the turn, and with every combination it makes no difference. Where more than one crosses the multiple-of-100 threshold on the same turn, GS > GM > GE.

Although the loophole is closed, micromanaging your specialists is still important, but for slightly different reasons. Assuming you care what Great Persons you generate and when, in G&K it was OK to take a look every so often and if it appeared two were going to cross the next multiple of 100 together, that was great; both GPs would pop and you got a small freebie. Now, however, GS always wins the ties, and GM wins over GEs. If sequencing matters to you, then you need to pay a bit more attention and throttle back the specialists if you want a GM or GE, rather than a GS.

But at least Great Artists (and their ilk) are out of this mix. In fact, because they run off separate counters, Great Writers, Artists and Musicians can all pop on the same turn as each other, and can pop on the same turn as a GE/GM/GS. I just popped a GW, GA, GM(usician) and Great M(erchant) on the same turn (which is what caused me to check all this out).

As noted above, the Mayan Long-Count, Liberty finisher and Leaning Tower of Pisa are still glitched, in the sense that taking a Great Prophet from the Long-Count, Liberty finisher or LToP still causes the cost of GEs, GMs and GSs to rise to the next increment of 100. In G&K, they also caused the cost of Great Artists to rise, but in BNW they do not cause the cost of GWAMs to rise (some thanks for small favors, I guess).

This remains an annoying incongruity; the only times in the game when Great Prophet generation is linked to GE/GM/GS generation is with the Mayan Long-Count, Liberty finisher and LToP. I have to believe this is a bug (can't be a nerf aimed at just Mayans, since the Liberty and LToP bugs apply to everyone) and can only hope that Firaxis chooses to fix it in the bug fix/balance patch this Fall.

Finally, for reasons I cannot fathom (other than perhaps a way of nerfing the Mayans), it appears that the Mayans can no longer select a Great Prophet with the Liberty finisher or the LToP. Every other GP is available, but not Great Prophets. This change was also made to G&K (disable BNW and check it out for yourself). So, the Mayans can only get a free (well, not quite "free") Great Prophet from their Long-Count. If you want to slingshot to a second GPr with the Mayans, you have to use a Great Engineer to rush Hagia Sophia.
 
Huh. Thanks for reporting the results of all your investigations. Useful information, that.
 
thanks, good know, I really hope they fix the Mayans bug, so they can choose the GProphet from LToP and Liberty.
 
One question, possibly dumb, have you also run a test game as anybody other than the Mayans to verify that the other civs are still allowed to select a Great Prophet from Liberty?
(They may have intended removed it from everybody with new Piety now having a Great Prophet)
 
Excellent question. It does appear that, for all civs, they removed Great Prophets from both the Liberty finisher and the Leaning Tower Great Person list, which means Hagia Sophia and the Piety finisher are the only sources of free Great Prophets for all civs except the Mayans. I feel less irritated now. Thanks for making me expand my checking beyond the Mayans.
 
There is a special rule regarding Great Prophets.

If you lack a pantheon, you can't pick a Prophet.

You've put your finger on it, but there are still some exceptions. After more testing last night, here's what I've concluded:

1. If you have a pantheon, the Liberty finisher and Pisa will allow any civ (including Maya) to pick a Great Prophet. Without a pantheon, neither the Liberty finisher nor Pisa will give you the option of selecting a GP.

2. Even if you don't have a pantheon, you can still get a GP from Hagia Sophia or the Piety finisher and found a religion, including picking a pantheon belief. (Can't imagine how, in a "real" game, you would get to the Piety finisher without founding a pantheon, or why you would want to, but it works.) Of course, Maya can also choose a GP from the Long Count, even if it has no pantheon.
 
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