City border expansion connected to other cities? (And a Civ 5 features rant)

sPainnn

Chieftain
Joined
Aug 11, 2013
Messages
4
Over the course of several games now, I've noticed that if City #1 expands its borders (e.g., by me purchasing a tile), border expansion in City #2 that isn't anywhere near City #1 becomes a lot more expensive.

Did anyone else notice this? Is this new?

I find it to be extremely detrimental to my favored playing strategy, which is slow expansion (I build many cities at maximum growth range from one another (6 hexes), so it's not a pure 'wide' strategy).

After a bunch of cities, things just become nigh impossible to afford, and city border expansion becomes extremely slow. I already had to get rid of that stupid 'you can't raze city states and capitals' option through the use of a mod, killing all achievements for me. Is this yet another thing I should probably turn off with a mod?

I really like Civilization 5 so far, I just wish we had more control over some of these 'features'.

(It also really irks me that Civilizations can put their filthy missionaries into my domain if we're not at war. I've declared and mostly annihilated civilizations for putting their religions in my cities. Last time one sued for peace, offered a city, I accepted. Guess what happened the next turn? One of their missionaries went straight for my city. Got really frustrated with that game.

I mean: My civilization never EVER does open border agreements with ANYONE, to keep their filthy mudblood out of my lands. It also helps in case they suddenly decide its wartime. But their religious units can march all over my lands unimpeded, and I can't even terminate their miserable existence without having to declare war. I mean: How the would they know I killed their stupid prophet. Not like anyone else of theirs is in my lands.

Caravans also sort of annoy me, but they're more benign. I really don't want them either with my closed borders. Must I declare war on everyone? My closed borders should be that: closed.)
 
That's what I call a 'peculiar' play style! Kkkk...

I think you should embrace the religious war, think of it like an 'overlayed' battle, it's a totally new battlefield where the units are the missio/prophets and the goal is to be the world religion.

If you don't got a religion, then why not let one spread into your country? They grant you some 'follower' benefits :crazyeye:.
 
I would, but in my last game getting a missionary cost me 1200 faith. I don't know if it also scales with the amount of cities you have (I guess it does), but it's prohibitively expensive for me to wage religious wars.

My solution to their prophets would initially be killing them either way :p
 
I think the cost rises the more units you faith buy... something like the great ppl points.. don't know for sure if new cities play a role here ^^

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I think the cost rises the more units you faith buy... something like the great ppl points..

No. It rises based on era. 200 until the end of the Medieval, then 300 in Renaissance, 400 in the Industrial, 600 in the Modern, 800 in the Atomic, and 1000 in the Information Era. Multiply by gamespeed (0.66 Quick, 1 Standard, 1.5 Epic, 3 Marathon) to get cost. Pagodas, Mosques, Cathedrals, Missionaries and Inquisitors follow this progression. The "Mandate of Heaven" policy from the Piety track (first on the right side) reduces costs by 20%, and the "Holy Order" Enhancer belief reduces the costs of Missionaries and Inquisitors by 30%. Monasteries cost 75% that of the other buildings, multiplicative with Mandate of Heaven.
 
settling 6 tiles apart is not really helping you if you settle a lot of cities. It takes 36 citizens to work the entire 3 ring + whatever specialists you have going. You also have to really push culture in order to get decent border growth, or you have to buy tiles. Roads cost more, and you need a higher pop in each city before the road pays for itself which leads to happiness problems. You are more spread out, and are more likely to be forward settling on someone which leads to war, and since you are more spread out it is harder to move units around. With a 6 tile spacing there is no overlapping fire zones between cities and the AI can easily move units between your cities and not take any fire.

While ICS may be a thing of the past in most cases, there is a lot to be said for spacing 3 or 4 tiles between cities.

I do share you frustration with missionaries though if I have founded a religion. You have to make a real effort to get religion on higher difficulties and it sucks to play ring around the rosie with a missionary or waste faith on an inquisitor.
 
Missionaries are subject to attrition while in your lands if they don't have Open Borders. They lose a quarter of their converting strength each turn and disappear entirely on the 4th turn. So just delaying them will help a lot.
 
No. It rises based on era. 200 until the end of the Medieval, then 300 in Renaissance, 400 in the Industrial, 600 in the Modern, 800 in the Atomic, and 1000 in the Information Era. Multiply by gamespeed (0.66 Quick, 1 Standard, 1.5 Epic, 3 Marathon) to get cost. Pagodas, Mosques, Cathedrals, Missionaries and Inquisitors follow this progression. The "Mandate of Heaven" policy from the Piety track (first on the right side) reduces costs by 20%, and the "Holy Order" Enhancer belief reduces the costs of Missionaries and Inquisitors by 30%. Monasteries cost 75% that of the other buildings, multiplicative with Mandate of Heaven.

I was/am in the industrial era. And a missionary costs 1200 faith.

Missionaries are subject to attrition while in your lands if they don't have Open Borders. They lose a quarter of their converting strength each turn and disappear entirely on the 4th turn. So just delaying them will help a lot.

How does one delay them? They can make use of my roads as well after all, and stationing a worker-type unit in a city doesn't prevent them from doing their thing either it seems.
 
If you space cities 6 tiles apart, there's plenty of "no-man's land" between your cities' culture borders where Missionaries can pause between turns to avoid attrition. Not only does spacing cities closer together provide less room for AI units to slip between your cities, but it increases the likelihood that missionaries will attrit. Also, to the point about 6-tile separation and 3-tile range, if you insist on 6-tile separation, your workable areas between cities will never overlap, with the result that you are left with large areas of unworkable tiles (picture the dead space in a carton of soda cans).

EDIT: You can block misisonaries with both military and civilian units long enough to attrit them out of existence. Since you're probably going Liberty, it's not like you have the Oligarchy bonus that incents you to keep units garrisoned in cities.
 
You delay missionaries by standing in their way. Civilians, unlike military units, can not pass through units. It will take 3 or 4 units to block a missionary and you have to constantly move to block them. Another common tactic is to simply surround the targeted city with units. I will sometimes pop out 3-4 1 turn scouts mid game for this purpose and then send them out to scout the sea later when I have the tech for it. Alternately you can put an inquisitor in the city and it will prevent conversion, but it will also prevent automatic faith purchasing of civilians in that city so you will have to move it out to auto buy missionaries, GS's etc.
 
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