First diplo win

walletta

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For a change, I played the Greeks on a small continental map at emperor level. I more or less kept pace with Persia in tech but by the early modern era I was hopelessly behind in turf and military strength. Never mind! Built the UN and won the ensuing vote 3-1. No probs! I don't think I declared war once in the whole game, honoured the terms of my one (defensive) alliance, traded ivory for gems with Persia throughout, and generally behaved well. Is that all there is to it?
 
Congratitulations!

It is also very helpful to bribe... ehm... offer gifts to the other nations the round before the UN is finished.

But yes, it is very unlikely to make a diplmatic victory after countless aggressive negotiations. ;)
 
If Persia were the biggest nation in the world, by landmass, then it doesn't matter what you do with them, the vote is always between the leading civ (by landmass/population) and the person who builds the Wonder. The normal tactic is to find ways to get the leader to have wars with everyone while you trade with everyone, I've never needed to bribe before the big day and I'm always unanimous, but I don't play on the higher levels. I use Diplomatic wins for games where I can't be bothered/can't see a more interesting victory condition after 1500AD (or whatever date means something to you for such a statement).
 
I like civ 4 UN resolutions. I hope sometime before 2050 they make it open source, so someone could expand diplomacy on civ 3 :)
 
If Persia were the biggest nation in the world, by landmass, then it doesn't matter what you do with them, the vote is always between the leading civ (by landmass/population) and the person who builds the Wonder. The normal tactic is to find ways to get the leader to have wars with everyone while you trade with everyone, I've never needed to bribe before the big day and I'm always unanimous, but I don't play on the higher levels. I use Diplomatic wins for games where I can't be bothered/can't see a more interesting victory condition after 1500AD (or whatever date means something to you for such a statement).

Buttercup - how do you get the other Civs involved in conflicts with each other? That happened in my game but I had nothing to do with it.
 
Buttercup - how do you get the other Civs involved in conflicts with each other? That happened in my game but I had nothing to do with it.
There's always the 'Rogue State' strategy... The idea is, you pick a target on another Continent -- ideally the potential runaway, Jerxes or Julius are prime candidates -- and set them up as the world's Bad Guy, by getting yourself involved in multiple war(s) with them, each time signing MAs with some/all of their neighbours (needs Embassies), so that they dogpile him (repeatedly) on your behalf.
Spoiler :
All the usual options to get a war started apply: the best option is obviously to 'persuade' your designated Rogue to DoW you (e.g. by refusing to pay them tribute, or by appearing Weak) -- that way, they've given you a cassus belli (and WH). Or you can wait for them to attack a neighbour, then sign an MA with that neighbour. Or if your Rogue just won't play ball, then you can wait until any active per-turn deals with them have passed the 20T-mark, then issue the DoW yourself (just cancel the PT). In the late game, MPPs are also a possibility, provided that the Rogue's neighbours aren't likely to DoW each other by 'mistake'. Or you can ensure that any MPPs you do sign are then activated the way you want them to be, e.g. by signing MPPs with the neighbours, then immediately DoWing the Rogue, and leaving a weak bait-unit (e.g. a Slave, or a Curragh/Galley) within reach of their borders. If you can't be 99.9% sure of your allies though, then it's better not to sign MPPs until just before a UN-election is due (each active MPP+RoP will pretty much guarantee you a vote).

Once I'm at war, I prefer to pay gold-per-turn for MAs, because the AICivs almost always sign PTs before the 20T is over; if they're the ones who break the MA-deal, I think I then don't take the rep-hit. Paying them everything upfront is less rep-risky, but obviously costs more in the short-term, and gives them no incentive to keep the war going longer than they 'want' to. But if I have some useful (defensive) mil-tech such as Feudalism or Gunpowder to bribe the Rogue's neighbours with, so that they take less damage in the process, then I might throw that into the MA too (or sell it at a discount in a separate deal).

If you have spare Luxes available, then it may be worth gifting them to your allies to reduce their citizens' WW. Gifting not only makes you look good, but (I think) if the AI is paying nothing for them, then getting the export cancelled through no fault of yours shouldn't give you a rep-hit. So again, try to avoid including a Lux-export as part of the MA-deal (if possible), especially if your ally is one of the smaller fry: if they lose their (usually one-and-only!) Harbour-town to the Rogue, not only will that cancel the Lux-export and hence the MA, but you will be considered the deal-breaker. (Maintaining your own Harbour-town(s) on your allies' Continent can protect against that possibility to some extent -- but only if you can be sure of holding it/them).
If you can pull all this off a couple of times against the same common enemy, then all those survivors will end up hating him, and loving you. And the best part is, since the wars will all be overseas, you shouldn't need to do much if any actual fighting yourself (beyond mop-up of naval invasions).

If you're going for a Diplo-win on a Standard map, this strat works best if there are only 1-2 other Civs on your Continent (and 60-70% Arch-maps may be preferable) -- because you will most likely need to defang/eliminate your own neighbours early on (or restrict yourself to fighting solely defensive/punitive wars against them) to prevent/discourage them from getting recruited against you later, and you'll need 2-3 other Civs left alive elsewhere to vote for you...
 
Thanks tjs282. Awesome. And amusing too. Like you, I tend to enjoy the wars where my allies do most of the fighting. Similarly, in the recent game, America and Egypt fought a long-drawn out and fluctuating conflict on my land! I don't mind that either so long as they don't get in the way too much :D
 
Once I'm at war, I prefer to pay gold-per-turn for MAs, because the AICivs almost always sign PTs before the 20T is over; if they're the ones who break the MA-deal, I think I then don't take the rep-hit.

You donnot. :)

I like to combine a MA, for which i will pay substancial gtp, with getting upfront payments like techs. That way the risk of signing a PT is transfered to AI. This may however have the sideeffect of making it less likely that AI breaks the MA. So be careful about that.
 
Bamspeedy wrote a nice article on rep hits, very useful read if you haven't gotten to it yet.
 
I read Ision's review of the Greeks and s/he said they were a first rate Civ. Is that a general view? My own very limited experience was pretty good. The AI seems to leave them pretty much alone to begin with, like Ision said, due to not wanting to take on the Hoplite, so they can get away to a trouble-free start.

You can get 6 free techs with the Greeks if you play your cards right plus a good chance of a GSL (I got just one, in time to rush the Hoover Dam). All in all I thought they were OK. Having played with Agri Civs for ages now, I did feel the lack of the extra food and I can kinda see why some think food is king in Civ III.
 
I read Ision's review of the Greeks and s/he said they were a first rate Civ. Is that a general view?

I share this view. In a PBEM they allowed me to have replaceable parts in 540 AD and devour 2 mid sized human empires within 2 turns each. So yes, they can be very strong. On pangäa there is no better civ to be leading in tech.

Having played with Agri Civs for ages now, I did feel the lack of the extra food and I can kinda see why some think food is king in Civ III.

That might be so. Agri is strong early on before you reach size 12. Once the maximum city size is reached its use is limited to 1 ftp worth half a specialist worth 1.5 beakers per turn. This does howevr change if you are presented with much desert.

Commercial gives 3 additional raw commerce in each metropolis plus some reduction in corruption.

SCI gives one free tech per age, that is a gain of ~5% at ~20 techs per age. Also having libraries and universities (much) more early can be rather powerful.
 
Greeks are strong, if not for their UU that can cause a much premature GA. see the triell stories if you want to see the effect if another human player in a PBEM realizes you are Greece.
t_x
 
Greeks are strong, if not for their UU that can cause a much premature GA. see the triell stories if you want to see the effect if another human player in a PBEM realizes you are Greece.

Sorry Templar, having a hard time reading this. Can you explain again what you are saying?

Greeks are one of my favs to play too. They are also decent for 1 city cultural wins.
 
Defensive UU have the strong disadvantage of losing controll over when the GA starts. A golden age during despotism or even anarchy is not very efficient.
 
Defensive UU have the strong disadvantage of losing controll over when the GA starts. A golden age during despotism or even anarchy is not very efficient.

I usually get my GAs off of Wonders. So if you're going 20k it's going to happen anyway isn't it...?
 
Defensive UU have the strong disadvantage of losing controll over when the GA starts. A golden age during despotism or even anarchy is not very efficient.

As much as one can have control over the start of a GA, a Defensive UU has just as much a chance of triggering one as an Offensive UU. If the code is written so that a UU flagged as defensive has less a chance of starting a GA then a UU flagged as offensive, I am not aware of it.
 
In Multiplayer your enemies might force a GA upon you by losing against a defensive UU on purpose. That is what templar was refering to. Against AI this issue is less relevant, but still has some annoyance to it.
 
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