SGOTM 12 - One Short Straw

Steam should work 4f and grow to pop2 in 5t. Then we can capture it back and gift it to Mao, take St Nick, and gift it to Stalin.

Yup. Pigs isn't using that farm anyway.

Should we run the epp slider to steal Steam Power sooner or should we run passive epp on Churchill while our spy gets his stationary bonus and save gold for a long 100% science run on Railroads? I'm leaning toward the latter.
 
Trade Roosy and Gandhi whatever makes most sense. I'd go passive with Churchill and wait for 50%.

We have to get back into CS asap. This missing workshop hammer is a bummer. Probably, we should poprush as much as we want to fast, and then run the GA.

We could poprush a caravel in Bananas in time for the exec going to Bahamas, whenever that will be. Somehow we have to get Tours up to a 2pop on the ch asap (~30-32/120h, not sure).

That is a lot of triremes. I remember when we had privateers in SG10 stealing Gandhi's gold every turn and he produced attack caravels NON-STOP. He built nothing else. :lol: But we had the privateers stacked and Gandhi wouldn't attack them, so he had like 20 caravels circling our privateers. Crazy. I guess we should escort the galleys with both caravels and the trireme, since CHurchill has (at least) 3 tris there.

Oxford looks delicious. DO you know where his workers went?

Looks like we have one of the river grass between Galley CIty and GP Farm and the other's coming fast. Those revolts have helped that along nicely.

We should station a spy in St Nick quite soon. We could steal Mil Sci in about 9 turns.
 
We could poprush a caravel in Bananas in time for the exec going to Bahamas, whenever that will be. Somehow we have to get Tours up to a 2pop on the ch asap (~30-32/120h, not sure).

We also have a galley waiting there for the executive.

That is a lot of triremes. I remember when we had privateers in SG10 stealing Gandhi's gold every turn and he produced attack caravels NON-STOP. He built nothing else. :lol: But we had the privateers stacked and Gandhi wouldn't attack them, so he had like 20 caravels circling our privateers. Crazy. I guess we should escort the galleys with both caravels and the trireme, since CHurchill has (at least) 3 tris there.

I don't have the save open, but 2 maces and 2 cannons should have been on board the galleys from last turn. I could unload all 4 units next to York on this turn along with the stack that is 1 turn away. A could cover the galleys with one caravel IIRC. That should allow me to take York next turn, CF, trade for his gold (he's had a lot lately), heal, and then head to London. Or we could just slow march another stack down there to arrive a turn later...

Oxford looks delicious. DO you know where his workers went?

No clue. They just disappeared. My spy never saw them.

We should station a spy in St Nick quite soon. We could steal Mil Sci in about 9 turns.

OK. I have the successful spy from Troy that can go there next turn.

What should we do with Mao? Iceball or is that too close to Roosevelt? We could put him on the island to N of Moscow...
 
:goodjob: Mitchum!
Should scrub that corn south of Hastings somehow.
Guangzhou seriously needs some food. :lol:
Looks like Roosy's on the move?
No time for a careful look 'till later. Everything looks just dandy, though.
 
Almost want Sushi in Bahamas ahead of Siberia (might as well finish IW and it's kinda far from everywhere). Looks like the second exec could be there just when we finish the Jail. Not sure...
 
Sushi in Bahamas before GP Farm is easily doable. As you said, we really need to get some food in all of Old China.

Regarding Churchill, we can't sign a CF until we're ready to gift him Steam. So I will slow march to York. The first stack will tear down the walls on T+1 while the second stack joins them and we'll own the city on T+2. The stack will then march on London and take it on T+5/6. By T+6, I'll have my spy ready (should be at least 40% bonus, but I don't have the game available on my wife's Mac). We'll sign a CF on the turn I take London, gift him Steam, and then steal Steam Power. I'll have a backup spy there, which may have less of a stationary bonus, but we must get Steam Power on that turn. We should have Hastings and at least one other city in the east by T+6 as well.

I think that will be a good stopping point, unless you want me to stop when we get our GM from Pigs, although I don't think we're ready to fire off another GA just yet. I'd rather whip a few more things, spread Sushi around a bit more, and then give our cities a few turns to grow first.

Also, should we whip the FP now as suggested (by bcool?) for 4 pops? Or would it be better to two pop whip (or three pop 9/120 with max overflow?) a forge first, overflow into FP, and then three pop (2 pop?) the FP, essentially getting a forge for 1 pop but delaying the FP by 4 turns? I just hate whipping wonders if I can avoid it...

Off to bed. Thanks for all of the input. This game is progressing much faster than I anticipated. I thought we'd still be 5 turns from Medicine at this point when I first started my planning. Now to think that we are so close to Mining Inc!!
 
How in the world are the Ducks getting 10,000 per turn? COuld they possibly have 100 sushi cities at 50 resources * 2 per resource?

Given they have a huge power/score spike at that time I can easily see them capturing a large number of cities very quickly, and there are many remaining island sites with food resources we should try and settle fairly quickly.

They might also have gone for Civilised Jewlers+Creative Constructions instead of mining inc which would give them a big culture bonus.

If the Ducks haven't built any cottages I can easily see raising the culture slider to boost the happy cap being more efficient than putting commerce into science. Also I wouldn't be surprised if they had beelined radio and built the Eiffel Tower which would account for about 3K of culture/turn.

I think we might want to consider researching democracy before astronomy. Ideally we would not want an AI to research it to avoid emancipation happiness issues, and if we go to war with America in roughly 10 turns we may have a realistic chance of doing this. The statue of Liberty alone could boost our research rate by around 40% compared to the current level-Far more than observatories.

I'm O.K. with spreadinf Sid to Bahamas and GP farm ahead of Siberia provided we build a third executive in the capital for Siberia immediately after the first two in the capital.
 
lurker's comment:
Edit: Is that some sort of research strategy? Run the cultural slider so you can grow your pop and work more specs, generate more GPs?

:eek: Yes!!! Generally done when using few (zero) cottages. play Justininan (for the boosted freakingly awesome theater) first time u try this... :goodjob:

PS: Ducks can't stop OSS... IM PO SS IB LE !! go go go! :worship:
 
lurker's comment:

:eek: Yes!!! Generally done when using few (zero) cottages. play Justininan (for the boosted freakingly awesome theater) first time u try this... :goodjob:

PS: Ducks can't stop OSS... IM PO SS IB LE !! go go go! :worship:
Okay, so give me more details, please. Is there anything more to it?
 
Outline: Sushi Spamming and Churchill Campaign

I'll have more time for this later, but just to get the idea out there.

I. I think we can get CHurchill down to 3 cities over the next ~6-7t. Four-pronged attack:
1. York-London (3 cannons + stack of trebs)
2. Oxford-Newcastle (4 cannons)
3. Canterbury (2 cannons)
4. Marseilles (2 cannons)

II. I think the Sushi spamming should be all out while we still have slavery, then switch out of slavery with the GA and beeline RR. Preliminary draft:
T+0
Moscow: exec(partial); max hammers
Bananas: caravel(partial) Or: 1pop spy this turn-caravel(1t)

T+1
Moscow: exec(1pop); max hammers
Bananas: caravel(1pop)

T+2
Moscow: exec(1t); send exec to GP Farm
Bananas: caravel to St Nick-1E

T+3
Moscow: exec(partial); send exec to caravel, caravel toward Bermuda
GP Farm: exec(partial)

T+4
Moscow: exec(1pop)
GP Farm: exec(2pop)
Caravel drops off exec in Bermuda, establishes offices in Bahamas
Bahamas: exec(partial)
set up 2-galley chain from Galley city-N toward Vlad

T+5
Moscow: exec(1t?); send exec to 2-galley chain toward Vlad for Kamchatka
GP Farm: exec(partial); exec to Rheims
Bahamas: exec(2pop?)

T+6
Moscow: cannons; send exec to Pigs
GP Farm: exec(2pop?)
Bahamas: exec(partial); send exec to Bermuda
Kamchatka: exec(partial) poprush next turn, send to Siberia
Rheims: exec(partial) poprush next turn, send to Hammer City

...

The idea I was following was to pick cities that don't need infra immediately and can poprush a quick exec. Sort of a chain reaction. Kamchatka-> Siberia. Rheims-> Hammer CIty. Until we have several SUshi spammers (e.g., Moscow, GP Farm, Bahamas, Bermuda, Rheims) and decide to revolt back to CS.
 
Also, should we whip the FP now as suggested (by bcool?) for 4 pops? Or would it be better to two pop whip (or three pop 9/120 with max overflow?) a forge first, overflow into FP, and then three pop (2 pop?) the FP, essentially getting a forge for 1 pop but delaying the FP by 4 turns? I just hate whipping wonders if I can avoid it...

The Forbidden Palace is worth at least 29 gold (post inflation) per turn, whipping this turn rather than building 4 turns from now saves us ~120 gold which is very precious at the moment, more important than a few pop in Orleans in my opinion.

Regarding Churchill, we can't sign a CF until we're ready to gift him Steam. So I will slow march to York. The first stack will tear down the walls on T+1 while the second stack joins them and we'll own the city on T+2. The stack will then march on London and take it on T+5/6. By T+6, I'll have my spy ready (should be at least 40% bonus, but I don't have the game available on my wife's Mac). We'll sign a CF on the turn I take London, gift him Steam, and then steal Steam Power. I'll have a backup spy there, which may have less of a stationary bonus, but we must get Steam Power on that turn. We should have Hastings and at least one other city in the east by T+6 as well.
I would knock out London asap, he is cranking out units (maybe only trireme?) And we can CF after Hastings, Then declare war again with a plan to CF after London for the city gift and steal of Steam Power.

I need to look at this a bit more but that is an alternative, capturing London as soon as possible I think is an important goal.

xpost
 
Not really as it is really map/game dependent. Usefull though when u get few trading partners and didn't get your hands on HR early on (it makes up for lack of resources and/or military police, with some leaders like Justinian you definatly want to get drama earlier than usual though, because then the trade off becomes really good provided you went mainly for farms as improvements). THough it has very good synergy with a globe build and whipping (and a philo bulb for more civic fun). Spiritual leaders are best for this to be able to switch between caste/slavery(/pacifism/theor/OR) as needed. It's I think there are a couple of threads about this in the ST forum.

Was just pointing it so you try it out so you get that first place in term of posts... it is fun! though I am not sure it has any application for your current game :lol:
 
Agree w mdy on Demo before Astro. Our first goal should be fastest possible RR.
I like LC's plan against Churchill. Looks like we could capture 4 cities (York, Cant, Ox, Mars) on T+3? Then we could get to Warwick the fastest, but we need London before CF (which is T+7 best scenario, it seems).

Edit: I don't know where the explorer caravel's going, but I think we should go have a look at Stalingrad now. See if he has ICBM.
 
Democracy does seem better, since Rosey is teching Riflery I assume next it seems unlikely he will tech it for us.

Astronomy knocks out the Colossus too.
 
Battle plans

Here is a suggestion for London

T0 move adj to York (use galleys to move 2 macemen and 2 cannons, protected by 2 caravel, 1 trireme)
T1 Assault of York (probably will need another turn)
T2 capture York, (Deposit load 2 cannon, Musket and Macemen (cannons currently 1NE of Hastings, steal one macemen from Hastings) next to London)
T3 Destroy defenses of London, deposit 2 cannon, Musket and Macemen, Load more units from York assault (send any healthy units towards London if safe)
T4 Load 4 units that needed healing, start destroying defenses of London (continue movement of healthy units to London if safe)
T5 finish destroying defenses Assault London with 4 siege, 4 land units deposit more units (send healthy units from York assault)
T6 Capture of London

Civ4ScreenShot0011 battle.jpg
see attached image (black T0 movement, red T1 movement, blue T2 movement, Orange T3 movement, Yellow T4 movement, Gray T5 movement)

Can upgrade two treb to cannons in Hastings for Canterbury assault use remaining maces in Hastings and perhaps some Muskets from Marseilles area.

edit: I would build another caravel in Rheims (perhaps whipping Market and using OF)
edit#2: do we still want to try and knock Churchill out of Theocracy?
He must have 2 GG in London to produce 5+ xp triremes under Theocracy
 
I agree we should whip executives, LC's plan looks okay to me.

I'm a little concern about war with Rosey.

Would be nice to get it started soonish and/or make sure we can steal Military Science so we can handle his rifle men. (Gifting Mao another city and giving Stalin St Nick)
-Would be nice to get CR macemen over to rosey for eventual upgrading to Grenadiers
--I'm worried waiting for Rheims 4E to grow to 2 pop will be too late
---Remember Stalin has another unknown modern tech that could be very useful... So not gifting him St Nick could hurt us quite a bit
----Still need to assess the ICBM risk.

Need Galleys there for a first attack on New York to take out the Statue of Zeus factor.
Doesn't look like we are getting too many more units from Moscow for this war
 
I like LC's plan for the war with Churchill, and with his plan for. I agree that we should send a caravel to spy on Stalin.

I also think that whipping the Forbidden Palce in orleans is more important than preserving population there.

I agree with the principle of spreading Sid's to several hub cities which can rapidly produce executives for other cities, though I don't think Kamchatka is really a suitable city for this, I would send that executive to Siberia.
 
though I don't think Kamchatka is really a suitable city for this, I would send that executive to Siberia.
I think the idea was to let Siberia finish Ironworks.
Kamchatka with a galley/caravel or two can send executives into French/China lands
 
The Ducks' graph had a little black cross on top of it this morning. I don't think we're meant to see that and I don't see it now...

I don't know if this means they actually finished in 1750 AD. That means launch in 1700 AD, correct? That would be T+51 for us. Assuming we can get close to them (fair assumption given how close our graphs are), what are the consequences?

For one, we need the next GA asap and need to start working on another asap (which means getting to Mining Inc. somehow and switching back to Caste/Pac). 51t is only 4GA+3t. So, we're likely only getting 3 in?
 
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