Derf's Ashes Modules

It'd be a sound way of picking up if a module is causing them, and if so, which one. Not ideal, I know.
Alternatively, have a look at Rebirth and Legend - it's based off base RiFE, and should have at least some of the fixes that are around. If not, I'll start working on another bug hunt instead of tinkering around and breaking things in preparation for other plans (It's been happening a lot).
At some point I should probably make RiFE and Rebirth compatible versions of many of these modules, I know, but between time and working on the main code I admit I keep putting it off.

You're probably right that I should begin to move on to Rebirth and Legend (and Ashes of Erebus, for that matter): unlike RifE, they're both still being developed, and even though I'm not a programmer I can still report bugs and make suggestions.

I don't know if it's worth your time to make RifE-compatible modules at this point -- I just don't know how many people still play RifE and what kind of interest there would be. *I* would find them interesting, but as you note, Rebirth has incorporated some of this already. Do it if it's something you want to do, of course, but seems to me that you should devote your time to the modding you truly want to do, which is Rebirth and Legend. Up to you, obviously.

I do enjoy playing RifE, but unfortunately have had to abandon games -- typically in the late game -- either because of a repeatable CtD, which of course has no chance of being fixed at this point, or a random CtD which I can avoid by reloading an earlier auto-save and doing a few things differently until a later random CtD. Usually at that late point in the game, with everyone having sizable empires and loads of units, each turn can take a few minutes, and I reach a point where I don't want to reload and spend 15-20 minutes replaying the 3 or 4 turns I just played. It's too bad, but I don't fault the modmakers for losing interest.

Anyway, I'll get around to Rebirth and Legend soon and offer feedback when I can.
 
If it's not a DLL bug (Because I haven't got around to tinkering with that and breaking even more) I should be able to fix it in Rebirth. Once I get the chance again I'll have a look through the Ashes thread and see if there are any more bugfixes I can make anyway.
Making the modules compatible shouldn't be a problem. As my Rebirth is based off base RiFE, and the original forms of the modules I updated for Ashes were also based off base RiFE, it should be a simple(ish) matter of undoing what I did for Ashes compatibility. I still have the original files around, and I know what changes I made in each of them if I had to, it shouldn't take long to remake them. Just at the moment when I do get time to work on things, it's usually on the main game because, well... I can do more when using the source.
 
@Derf:

If you do decide to make your modules compatible with RifE at some point, can I suggest you make them compatible with Snarko's patch (RifE 1.41, I guess)? The patch contains some important fixes, which the mod team didn't get around to once they discontinued working on the mod. (Again, I don't fault the mod team for moving on, and no disrespect intended to Valkrionn or anybody else on the team.)

I've put in a request to one of the CFC administrators to sticky the thread containing Snarko's patch, so people can find it. If it's not stickied soon, I'll follow up.
 
Saila's still duplicating equipment when she dies and is reborn, because she both drops it as per the normal equipment rules, and respawns with it. Normally only really abusable by a human player, but I had a very... interesting experience in one of my more recent games. For some ungodly reason, an AI-controlled Saila managed to acquire Orthus' Axe, the Bow of the Long-Sighted, and a Ring of Striking, before proceeding to perform suicide runs back and forth between Acheron and the nearest AI civilization.

Imagine my surprise when I got steamrollered by a 30-strength Saila leading an army of dozens of Axemen, each and every one with 2 extra strength and 3 first strikes.

Mind, I'm not complaining about her becoming absurdly strong. It's fun trying to figure out how to take down or redirect a unit with a base strength so far above the norm. I imagine the equipment duplication could be stopped by the addition of a few lines stripping out equipment from Saila after each respawn, though.
 
Are these compatible with the newest version of AoE?
 
A little late, I know.
I don't know, although what I've picked up here and there suggests not. I haven't had the chance to do much work on either my modules or RaL for most of the last year or so, when I last did things here.
Once I find out what breaks them and what needs to be done to fix them, I'll see about how long I can spare to run out a line of updates to fix them.
 
Hi Derf, I need a bit of help on "modules".
After all the bickering I've done in Nycidian's Maogata Rebalanced thread, I decided to put my energy in modding those changes myself.
However, I went a bit overboard... and now, when I try the module, I have a CTD immediatly after loading RaL to the main menu.
there is no xml exception before the CTD (I cleaned those already).

I have 3 ideas for this:
first might be related to multiple occurence of a single promotion
I gave 2-5 or 10 cajar promotions at "birth" to some units... maybe it doesn"t like <iNumApplied>2</iNumApplied> or any value different than 0-1
but the unitinfo schema says this :
<ElementType name="FreePromotions" content="eltOnly">
<element type="FreePromotion" minOccurs="0" maxOccurs="*"/>
I suppose it means I can give any number of time the same free promotion...
alternatively, it might only mean that I can give any number of free promotions... but not multiple numbers of a single one...

any idea ?

the second one is about repurposing non-unique units (so I did not create "unit_classes" for them):
I changed : Boar / dire boar / blood boar / Hero Boar / Elephant / Mammoth to give them an upgrade to chariot / chariot +1 / chariot +2 / Chariot +3 / War Chariot / War Chariot2

the third one might be related to EarlyUnitArtDefineTag
when I created my chariots / war chariots I put the following code:
<UnitMeshGroups>
<iGroupSize>5</iGroupSize>
<iMeleeWaveSize>2</iMeleeWaveSize>
<iRangedWaveSize>2</iRangedWaveSize>
<UnitMeshGroup>
<iRequired>1</iRequired>
<EarlyArtDefineTag>ART_DEF_UNIT_CHARIOT</EarlyArtDefineTag>
</UnitMeshGroup>
<UnitMeshGroup>
<iRequired>4</iRequired>
<EarlyArtDefineTag>ART_DEF_UNIT_BOAR</EarlyArtDefineTag>
</UnitMeshGroup>
</UnitMeshGroups>
and I did modify the UnitArtStyleTypeIfo.xml file with the following:
Spoiler :
<StyleUnit> <!-- HERDERS -->
<UnitType>UNIT_CHARIOT_MAOGATA</UnitType>
<UnitMeshGroup>
<EarlyArtDefineTag>ART_DEF_UNIT_TIGER</EarlyArtDefineTag>
<LateArtDefineTag>ART_DEF_UNIT_TIGER</LateArtDefineTag>
<MiddleArtDefineTag>ART_DEF_UNIT_TIGER</MiddleArtDefineTag>
</UnitMeshGroup>
<UnitMeshGroup>
<EarlyArtDefineTag>ART_DEF_UNIT_BOAR</EarlyArtDefineTag>
<LateArtDefineTag>ART_DEF_UNIT_BOAR</LateArtDefineTag>
<MiddleArtDefineTag>ART_DEF_UNIT_BOAR</MiddleArtDefineTag>
</UnitMeshGroup>
<UnitMeshGroup>
<EarlyArtDefineTag>ART_DEF_UNIT_BOAR</EarlyArtDefineTag>
<LateArtDefineTag>ART_DEF_UNIT_BOAR</LateArtDefineTag>
<MiddleArtDefineTag>ART_DEF_UNIT_BOAR</MiddleArtDefineTag>
</UnitMeshGroup>
<UnitMeshGroup>
<EarlyArtDefineTag>ART_DEF_UNIT_BOAR</EarlyArtDefineTag>
<LateArtDefineTag>ART_DEF_UNIT_BOAR</LateArtDefineTag>
<MiddleArtDefineTag>ART_DEF_UNIT_BOAR</MiddleArtDefineTag>
</UnitMeshGroup>
<UnitMeshGroup>
<EarlyArtDefineTag>ART_DEF_UNIT_BOAR</EarlyArtDefineTag>
<LateArtDefineTag>ART_DEF_UNIT_BOAR</LateArtDefineTag>
<MiddleArtDefineTag>ART_DEF_UNIT_BOAR</MiddleArtDefineTag>
</UnitMeshGroup>
</StyleUnit>
so that I have 1 tiger herding 4 Boars...
However couldn't an issue arise as the original chariot was :
<UnitMeshGroups>
<iGroupSize>3</iGroupSize>
<iMeleeWaveSize>2</iMeleeWaveSize>
<iRangedWaveSize>2</iRangedWaveSize>
<UnitMeshGroup>
<iRequired>3</iRequired>
<EarlyArtDefineTag>ART_DEF_UNIT_CHARIOT</EarlyArtDefineTag>
</UnitMeshGroup>
</UnitMeshGroups>
with only 1 type of Art-define-tag...
should I have done the following:
<UnitMeshGroups>
<iGroupSize>5</iGroupSize>
<iMeleeWaveSize>2</iMeleeWaveSize>
<iRangedWaveSize>2</iRangedWaveSize>
<UnitMeshGroup>
<iRequired>5</iRequired>
<EarlyArtDefineTag>ART_DEF_UNIT_CHARIOT</EarlyArtDefineTag>
</UnitMeshGroup>
</UnitMeshGroups>
so: modifying the "artdefinetag" to only prepare for 5 "normal" chariot units... and then manage the boar / tiger diversity uniquely in the UnitArtStyleTypeInfo.xml ?


if you have any other idea for that "bug" please tell me....
 

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  • Maogata.7z
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The iNumApplied tag should work with any integer with no issue.
for the upgrades, i don't think it should be problematic, but i'm not absolutely certain.

Have you looked at the logs to see if there's anything that can give you a clue as to what's wrong ?
 
mmhh..
can you remember me where I can find the logs ?
(and if RaL doesn't have them by default I'll have to re-try that this evening.)
thanks
I'll keep you informed :D

(to be honest, I'm pretty sure that the animal upgrades are without consequence... but those are the "only" things I did where I was out of my depth).
 
you should have a shortcut to the logs in the Beyond the Sword folder. If you don't, they should be in User/MyDocuments/MyGames/beyondthesword/logs

you activate them by switching enablelogging from 0 to 1 in the bts config file.

If the logs give you nothing, i suggest going back to the last version that worked ( i assume the base maogata module does work), and then add your changes one by one, to see which one is causing an issue.
 
yep... that's what I was gonna do...

however that'll be loonng.
(as I never learned to work with "version" that can be easily added and removed... :/ )

so I wanted to see if some "well-rounded expert" could have seen in 2min some obvious mistake that I don't have the knowledge to detect yet.
 
Looking from outside the FfH world and comparing with a UNIT_SETTLER in BtS, shouldn't the ART_DEF_UNIT_CHARIOT in your Unit file be replaced by a ART_DEF_UNIT_TIGER to match the CIV4UnitArtStyleTypeInfos file?
 
nice of you to come check.
I dunno.

At first I put ART_DEF_UNIT_TIGER, but I wondered if I would get the tiger icon...

so I put the ART_DEF_UNIT_CHARIOT to try to have the "icon" staying as the chariot unit and not as a tiger unit, but have the unitArtStyleTypeInfo convert that "chariot skin" into a "tiger skin" :D

If you are sure that it's the issue I'll do it.

I'll have to do multiple debugging tries... I'll start with the logs
 
I can't say for sure as I never toyed with this, you will have to test it. It's just an exercise of comparison that I did.

What is unclear from an outside perspective is if you want to create a new unit, a new unique unit or just an existing unit with a different ArtStyle.

If it's a new unit or a new unique unit, you can define a specific button in your new entry in the CIV4ArtDefines_Unit file.

If it's just an existing unit with a different ArtStyle, then you need to use the CIV4UnitArtStyleTypeInfos , but you can't have a specific button.

At least, that's how it is in plain BtS.
 
yes, but do I need to adress the question of keeping the button of old, and creating a different arrangement...

I have seen on the previous modmod :
a "coup rider" : new unique unit.
the EarlyArtDefinesTag is the Horse archer tag... and there is nothing in CIV4ArtDefines_Unit for this unit;
and the button is kept as the one of the Horse Archer.

So I thought : let's do the same with Chariot... but then replace the chariot model by something else using CIV4UnitArtStyleTypeInfos... as if it was a "new artistyle for an existing unit".

but maybe it's what's bugging my mod.
i'll look into it later.

Maybe I'll have to go get the buttons of the chariot... but for that I'll need to open the image pack file (fpk or something)
 
back imperator:
here are the logs...
I don't see anythings buggy, but I'm not sure I would be able to tell.
so now, I'm starting to do it the hard way : add 1 unit after the other...
 

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  • Logs.7z
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but, now I managed to build, through trial and errors, a lite version, with only the normal maogata + a chariot (tiger + boar) and a war chariot (sabretooth + elephant).

now it loads nicely, no issue.
I can even create a map (play now).
however, here comes the strangeness :
I can WorldBuild the chariot
but when I WorldBuild the war_chariot... it crashes into CTD without even showing me the unit on the map.

so I'm currently trying to see what differences I can find between those 2 units that would lead to a crash for showing a sabretooth + elephant combination.

And if I can't, I'll add my "balancing" modifications, the chariot replacement, and I'll do the war_chariot another time.

I'll do that tomorrow.
thanks for all the help.
 
so... to continue that topic:
I curbed my ambitions for the moment...
(no more newly created war_chariot...)

but.. I tackled another problem : immersion into Maogata... with pesky lizards...
so I did my first ever reskin test.
and lo. and behold:

however, the issue is that : I took the base of the werewolf... so that's a wolfish jaguar...and the knees are really human-like...
and
I cannot "draw" a skin... even for $1000. So I could only "copy/paste/apply" a jaguar skin already existing, on "shape" of the werewolf.
so muscles, shadows that'll give the illusion of a slightly different shape .. are out of the question.

that was a try.
I'm thinking about doing the same thing with reskining the current Mazalt/Cuali lizard (bare-chested + tail + long mouth) into respectively lion-Sabretooth / Tiger / Jaguar / cheetah (depends on available skins for animals) / White Tiger (if I can)

I'm also wondering about reskining the svart horsearcher into a jaguar rider or tiger rider (but I don't know how Moagata could entice elves into working with them... or how buggy an elf would look when reskinned into a tiger / cheetah / jaguar :D )

And it's true that this system is not really good (as the 3D model is not really good, and the feline skin is applied in a rough manner), but maybe It'll help a bit for the immersion.
 
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