Sailing Ships Reskins

walbeek said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but what I see in all the images provided: The civcolor is no longer present because of redesigning and reskinning the ships. If you look at Wolfshanze's pic above your post, I cannot see the color of Germany (white) on the ships. Same with the Russian ships.... The Civ Flag, yes indeed, hadn't thought of that. But still....

Click to expand...

Well, that's the whole point... it's much easier to put things like a proper naval jack on a ship instead of the default flag since the national flag banner is going to be next to every ship in-game unless you play all your games on maximum zoom (the only zoom level without the national flag post). I use plenty of team-color ship flags if I'm not doing something specific with the ship on my own models, but I see nothing wrong with using a good naval jack considering the national flag post will be next to any ship in anything other then maximum zoom.

walbeek said:

Wolfshanze, I like your custom nation flag! I know there is a custom Flags mod, but I don't like changing all the flags, because some of them I don't like or don't want replaced. Can I just change some? But I do like this German one. Still not sure if I want the Dutch Flag replaced. The "Prinsenvlag" in Oranje-Blanje-Bleu (Orange-white-Blue) has been one of the historic flags, but has a bit of a dark history. (Sorry for this off-topic subject).

Click to expand...

Thanks... I had a long internal debate with myself on which flag to use for Germany since there's been so many used over German history. I finally settled on the North German Confederation flag, since it was the first "united Germany" flag, it had Germany's traditional tri-colors, and it showed the well-recognized German Cross which is also prominently featured in the default Civ4 flag for Germany.

As for using custom flags, you don't have to take an all-or-nothing approach with them... it's very easy to pick and choose which flags you want to change and which flags you don't. I've changed flags on probably 3/4ths of the civs in-game, but some I liked the original flags. It's also very easy just to change one or two as it is all of them.

Thanks for the nice feedback. You are right, I have removed more and more of the teamcolor until I finally removed it all. I think the most important point why you do need team colour in vanila is to make ships differentiable from each other. With the reskins they are still. I don't think you need this small flags on the top of the masts to identify the nation (depending on your zoom you can sometimes not even identify the small flag), because ingame there is this big civilization flag next to each unit. For example with mechanised units team colours are often replaced as well. And I think it does even looks quite strange if the turret of a tank or the buildup at the stern of a galleon is suddenly all green, light blue or even worse.

For the choose of the small flags: Most often I try to use historical accurate naval flags, but at least to me historical accuracy is not the most important thing. I want people that they are able to identify themself with this flag, when they play the nation, most important people that actually do come from that country. So, for example when Hawkwood mentioned, he can identify hisself better with the later naval flag of russia, I could completely understand that wish. Or if you would say, you feel strange with that Prinsenvlag and you would prefer someone else, I would create alternate versions too. As well, as I don't feel well with any combination of red, white and black for germany, and I think most americans won't feel well with flag from the american civil war, allthough it was historical accurate for really many frigates. Quite some people do see this different, it's just the way I think about it.

At the moment I am not absolutly sure how to continue. I thought about doing some asian ships, but there is not much historical data about this, or some civilizations which didn't make it until the age of sails. I'd like this civs to be somewhat "what if", but I don't have a concrete plan yet. It would be quite crative artwork, but at the same time I know, there are many people who don't like "what if". So, I am still brainstorming about that.

JustATourist said:

At the moment I am not absolutly sure how to continue. I thought about doing some asian ships, but there is not much historical data about this, or some civilizations which didn't make it until the age of sails. I'd like this civs to be somewhat "what if", but I don't have a concrete plan yet. It would be quite crative artwork, but at the same time I know, there are many people who don't like "what if". So, I am still brainstorming about that.

Click to expand...

"What if" IS however a substantial part of this game. We have Americans running around in bear skins and Sumerians ruling the oceans with battleships in a potential game. But "what if" thinking doesn't need to be thàt difficult. Like I suggested Genovese ships (they also had a powerfull merchant-fleet) could be used to supplement the Roman Empire. And Greeks shouldn't have to be all that different. Just something to think about!
And don't be discouraged if there is no historical reference to back up your design. If you made so many already as you did, you'll get the feel of it and
I'm sure you would design a convincing non-historical unit.
And as for the Prinsenvlag on the Dutch ships, that IS the only correct flag to put on there...

JustATourist said:

As well, as I don't feel well with any combination of red, white and black for germany, and I think most americans won't feel well with flag from the american civil war, allthough it was historical accurate for really many frigates. Quite some people do see this different, it's just the way I think about it.

Click to expand...

I know the red/white/black German colors have been used in a variety of flags (including those of the Third Reich, albeit in a much different pattern), but (at least outside of Germany), most folks associate the German red/white/black tricolor with the German monarchy years (of the Kaisers) as opposed to the Third Reich, which again (at least outside of Germany) is not seen as anything to be ashamed of or anything likewise wrong.

As for American history, I assume you were speaking of the Confederate flag, which (once again) doesn't quite carry the stigma of the Third Reich flag... it is also often still displayed all over the country (especially in the south).

You also have a distinction of use... the red/white/black German tricolors (in various forms) were the official flags of the German state for quite some time, whereas the Confederate Flag was born of an internal rebellion which lasted for four years. I'd have no problem seeing the Confederate flag for a Confederate "Civ" or for a Civil War scenario, but it just doesn't fit for any mainstream American use... it's not a revulsion thing, but more of a "just doesn't fit" thing.

I really don't have personal likes or dislikes for any flag of any nation... nor do I care much for affiliations or associations of any flag... to me, they are just flags, I don't assign a whole lot of personality into a flag... it's colored cloth for all I care. I used the German red/white/black tricolor flag because it's at least somewhat representative of an earlier monarchy-led Germany... which (in my view) is probably what Germany is going to be-in for a large chunk of the game. If the game was focused on 1933-1945, I would have no qualms of using the flag of the Third Reich, and if the game was focused on 1945 till today, I would most-certainly use the current German tricolor of red/black/gold.

Thing-is, the game covers 6,000 years of history... so there's really no right or wrong flag to use when a nation has used so many different flags over the course of it's history. To me, I think it's personal choice, and I gave the reasons I considered which flag to use, and certainly others may/will choose differently.

About the only flag I don't like, is the one Civ4 ships with... basically a white flag with a German Cross... out of all the flags that could have been used, that's probably the one I least agree with. My personal view, is that either the current German tri-color or any of the Imperial flags of Germany are probably the better choices to go for... but that's just my thoughts.

Wolfshanze said:

About the only flag I don't like, is the one Civ4 ships with... basically a white flag with a German Cross... out of all the flags that could have been used, that's probably the one I least agree with. My personal view, is that either the current German tri-color or any of the Imperial flags of Germany are probably the better choices to go for... but that's just my thoughts.

Click to expand...

Well, I don't know, if the german vanilla flag is such a bad choice. You know, allthough there is over 2000 years of german history, the german country itself is less than 200 years old. Before that the german regions where part of the HRE, so it would have been wrong to use this flag to. So you have to think about something else, what is typical german. Firaxis did choose the flag of the teutonic order. That's not historical accurate but quite creative thinking. Well, I would have prefered an eagle over the teutonic cross, but I can live with that decision.

If the flag must be a historical existing flag, I'd prefer black-red-gold, which have been the colours of germany for 96 years now, first in 1848, over black-white-red, which has been the german colours for only 63 years, first in 1867. Another reason is, that much of the 63 years were years of war, war preparing and monarchy or dictatorship, while black-red-gold does stand for german democracy and peaceful years.

What I go for in the flags I choose for civs is more a "representation" of the country and people rather than the flag of the nation itself, which seems to be what the devs were going for as well.

JustATourist said:

If the flag must be a historical existing flag, I'd prefer black-red-gold, which have been the colours of germany for 96 years now, first in 1848, over black-white-red, which has been the german colours for only 63 years, first in 1867. Another reason is, that much of the 63 years were years of war, war preparing and monarchy or dictatorship, while black-red-gold does stand for german democracy and peaceful years.

Click to expand...

Yeah, well who plays Civilization to make nice with all your neighbors and avoid war like the plague!

To each their own of course... I also happen to think the red/black/gold flag is just fine too, and a better choice then what Firaxis chose... and for a little history, I had considered using this flag by throwing the eagle on it...

JustATourist, a request. Would it be possible to reskin the proper Firaxis frigate into a Dutch (and English) frigate too? And for those nations you already skinned the Firaxis frigate into a national one, could you create a national reskin for the privateer?

Although, the easiest thing would be to reskin the privateer to a non-pirate ship with teamcolor...

Wolfshanze said:

....As for American history, I assume you were speaking of the Confederate flag, .....

Click to expand...

He did not say that. He said:

JustATourist said:

...and I think most americans won't feel well with (a) flag from the american civil war...

Click to expand...

Could just aswell be the United States flag of that era, the 34 stars & 13 stripes

(But I'm sure he ment the Confederate BATTLE flag )

He didn't need to spell it out to convey his meaning... I'm confident he spoke of the Confederate Flag, not the US Flag.

GeoModder said:

JustATourist, a request. Would it be possible to reskin the proper Firaxis frigate into a Dutch (and English) frigate too? And for those nations you already skinned the Firaxis frigate into a national one, could you create a national reskin for the privateer?

Click to expand...

Well, it is quite uncomportable to reskin the frigate, because the colour of the hull is very dark with little contrast and it is not that easy to create a good looking brighter hull colour, while it is quite easy to give the privateer a different hull colour. But I can have a look at it. Do you ask for it for a special purpose?

The privateer allready has team colours, but only the flag with the skull does use it.

I don't understand. You already textured several national frigates, and thus have a base texture on which only the national emblems need to be put on the sails.

As on the privateer, is it possible to remove the pirate symbol from the teamcolor without losing the teamcolor?

On the frigate again, if what you want/need is a different base texture for the frigate, in the attachment there's an old one from Ganart which is perhaps of use to you.

GeoModder said:

I don't understand. You already textured several national frigates, and thus have a base texture on which only the national emblems need to be put on the sails.

Click to expand...

Well, normally I do more than just changing the sail. Often I try to make the color of the wooden hull different from each other. That's the most busy part of the work, allthough most people won't even notice the difference. But I do know the difference. If you really just want the sails and the flag to be exchanged it is much less work. I am just currious why you do need this.


QUOTE=GeoModder;7086171]As on the privateer, is it possible to remove the pirate symbol from the teamcolor without losing the teamcolor?[/QUOTE]


It is without problem. Just some small changed to the original skin I just made: Teamcolored privateer

The team colour on the mast looks horrible. I think you should just keep it to the flag, and sails.

JustATourist said:

If you really just want the sails and the flag to be exchanged it is much less work. I am just currious why you do need this.

Click to expand...

Thanks for this one already, but as Chuggi said the platforms on the masts are a bit overdone. The flag and the team colored part of the bowsprit are good for me.

To satisfy your curiosity, the plan is to use these graphics to update unit classes upon era. I always thought it weird that a caravel graphic continues to be used in for instance the frigate era for this class of vessel. Therefore, this teamcolored privateer graphic could be used to replace the caravel graphic upon the onset of the Renaissance era. Or if you ever manage to create national privateer graphics for all European civs, those.
As it is now, its easiest to use team-colored ship graphics for at least the more naval obscure civs like Celtia and Holy Romans.

Does this answer your question?

Allright allright, the team color on the plattforms is removed. All vanilla ships have colored plattforms, so I colored it too. No need to call it horrible.

Privateer




@GeoModder: Yes, thanks. I know, curriosity is a bad habit.

GeoModder said:

Therefore, this teamcolored privateer graphic could be used to replace the caravel graphic upon the onset of the Renaissance era.

Click to expand...

Have you worked out how to change units upon entering other ages?
Is it possible to add an xml tag?

I better start making renaissance and industrial settlers.

Chuggi said:

Have you worked out how to change units upon entering other ages?
Is it possible to add an xml tag?

I better start making renaissance and industrial settlers.

Click to expand...

Well, it's easy to change the graphic when it reaches the Industrial age, since that's an automatic graphic changing point in-game... changing it in a different age, like the Renaissance might be trickier, as I believe that requires some significant across the board changes (probably DLL and Python), though I know someone has already done this.

Yes but I'm not going to make industrial settlers how it is now because they would look strange in the modern era.