Zulu?

I am a recently started player and want a few things clear up, why isnt zulu included in warlords version?

Ok, i have understand that it can be boering whith none other civs for a very long time, but we could add other tribes and dutchmens coming sailing down by 1500 ad...

And they can start earliest and have history victories like no european colonies til 1902 AD (exept dutch), never lose a city to europeeans or other tribes and councuer all other tribes before 1500 ad?

it was agreed that historically accurate zulus would stand no chance and add nothing to the game...

Agreed. The Zulu as a people may have existed for thousands of years, but there don't appear to have been any governmental structures larger than a couple villages until Shaka in the 1810s.

I dont know much about history (I find it intersting but have little spare time with which to explore it), however on the map the is an obvious gap in africa, personally I would like to see some sort of empire there. Now as we already have the Mali all we need is one as important as them in order for them to be worth considering does anybody know of any?

Ok, let them start 1500 ad when i begins to happend sorta things...

Zulu's should be in as a MC, I think. Give the English a hard(er) time.

Hmmm... Classical age tech-civ born at 1500AD... just takes extra-power from comp.

But I agree, (if they aren't already in) a (Zulu) Minor Civ to give some trouble to African colonization wouldn't be too bad, it WAS the last continent ...

mitsho

Anyone familiar with the Kuhorsehockyes? I have this old history book which talks about them, which fascinated me because I've never ever heard mention of them before.

Apparently, they were a black colored civilization that was south of Nubia, and at it's height, reached from Ethiopia all the way to Israel. The Kuhorsehockyes collapsed around 300 A.D.

Ethiopa is also a good option. I don't think there were any south African.. "Civilizations", so I can't help there.

The cities for Ethiopia are already in, and most of the time don't even spawn because they are in Egypt's borders by the trigger dates. So that's why it can't be a minor civ.

Well Kush would spawn around the same time as egypt, so it WOULD work

Kush should be represented either by strong barbarians or a minor civ. We have to slow down Egypt expansion to the south.

Kuhorsehockye are Nubians. Any way, a good southern African civ to have would be Great Zimbabwe, they collapsed before the Europeans arrived, but their successor state, Monomutapa, was able to defeat and hinder the Portuguese in their colonization attempts for a while, maybe as an MC at least?

kairob said:

I dont know much about history (I find it intersting but have little spare time with which to explore it), however on the map the is an obvious gap in africa, personally I would like to see some sort of empire there. Now as we already have the Mali all we need is one as important as them in order for them to be worth considering does anybody know of any?

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There really aren't any empires that compare with Mali.

The biggest two in the south were Great Zimbabwe and Zulu. They covered a small territory, had little tech, and little communication with other nations.

The big ones in the west -- Benin, Dahomey, the slave kingdoms -- were all palpably inferior to Mali.

The big ones in the east are Zanzibar, which was really an Omani Arab client state, and the various Ethiopian nations (Sheba, Kush, Axum, the Kingdom of Ethiopia). All the Ethiopian nations were extremely impressive on the cultural front and made their citizens very prosperous. But, with the exception of the Kingdom of Ethiopia (the one that fought against Mussolini's Italy) they had little meaningful contact with their African neighbors and only intermittent relations with Asia.

The problem is that civilization is a cumulative thing. If your neighbors are not doing great things, it is harder for you to do great things because there is no one to trade goods and ideas with. Despite its biodiversity, subsaharan Africa was very weak on crops that could support big civilizations -- traditional varieties of wheat and oats can't grow in the tropics, for example -- so until recently it couldn't support sufficient population to take off.

East Africa before the Europeans was a hub of trading activity with centers such as Mogadishu, some other African cities, cant remember. Anyway, maybe some rich barbarian cities should be added in east African so that for other civs to settle they at least have to conquer something?

The zulu.... They weren't any more important or civilized than the rest of Africa... I mean, they look like the stereotypical african savage if you ask me.

The zulu.... They weren't any more important or civilized than the rest of Africa... I mean, they look like the stereotypical african savage if you ask me.

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The Zulu could easily be represented by small barbarian waves in the 17th-19th centuries but an East African kingdom would make a fitting minor civ. Ethiopia would spawn too late and Nubia is almost at the heart of Egypt in RFC, but I think Aksum would be a perfect addition.

Anyway, maybe some rich barbarian cities should be added in east African so that for other civs to settle they at least have to conquer something?

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I think some East African cities were suggested in the barbarian cities thread, but I have a sneaking suspicion they'd just be razed. The AI like to raze barbarian cities and in some cases they'll go out of their way to destroy them ("Nidaros has been razed by Isabella!").

they had little meaningful contact with their African neighbors and only intermittent relations with Asia.

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Aksum is an exception. They were heavily involved in Arabian affairs and though Christian, Aksum was one of the furthest outposts of Buddhism for centuries. If Aksum were included then they could help Arabia eat up Egypt (which is something they seem to have trouble with at the moment) as they had a strong grip on Egypt's eastern coast and even held portions of Arabia until they were driven out.

Edit: Wikipedia has a fair bit on Aksum which also mentions trade with Rome, Byzantium and India.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Aksum

Take wikipedia with a grain of salt.

I'd think that some independent civs would be nice in Africa.

More pleasant would be a recognition of the mineral and resource wealth of the Congo. Currently, its a megaswamp and a river.

I would do, if it weren't backed up with other sources. This isn't some "Idaho's Portugal" here.